CCIE credibility

Unanswered Question
Sep 22nd, 2007

I have been reading on websites about braindumps on CCIE exams. I know it may be fake , but what if it has some reality in it ???

CCNA and CCNP programs have although lost there credibility , 100% exact dumps are available.

but CCIE must not lose its credibilty.

I have this problem too.
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Kevin Dorrell Sun, 09/23/2007 - 02:02

It is a bit more difficult to braindump the CCIE because CCIE is a lab exam.

This is what I remember about what they said in the CCIE preparation session at networkers. They have quite a few scenarios and each candidate is given one of them at random. A scenario is retired after a certain time (1 year perhaps?) just in case any information has leaked out about it, and also to keep pace with technology.

Now, since Cisco are quite agressive about tracking down any leaks, and given that the 6-month booking list is full full full, the chances of being able to go into the lab test with any useful brain-dump of the particular scenario you are going to do are pretty slim. Does anyone here claim to have done so? (duh! ;-)

The CCNA and CCNP exams are entirely another matter. I have never been convinced about the efficacity of multiple chioce as an exam format. It does not test whether you know the right answer. Instead, it tests whether you can recognise the right answer when you see it. It tests reactive reasoning rather than proactive knowledge. Having said that, it follows that simulation questions are a great way to test.

Does that mean the CCNA and CCNP have lost their credibilty? Not entirely. For many jobs, CCNA or CCNP is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Having a CCNA or CCNP does not prove anything. But not being able to get a CCNA or CCNP does prove something. That means that they are a great way of whittling down 100 applicants into a shortlist of 20.

Personally, I think Cisco need to spend more effort tracking down the brain-dumps and changing their questions more regularly. Particularly with so many people taking the tests. IMHO, they need to arrive at a situation where there is one brain-dump site only -

Kevin Dorrell


cyphur353 Sun, 09/23/2007 - 03:37

Kevin, great post! I completely agree with your points.

The way I see it - associate and professional level exams are a good milestone for comprehension. After all, you have to know the material pretty well to pass the exams unless you are really good at brain-dumping. Even with all the resources out there, you still see a lot of posts about folks failing the CCNA - so these exams aren't giveaways.

All the certifications merely get your foot into the door - you'll still need to sell yourself and prove your technical expertise - CCIE included in the bigger companies. You'll get more respect as a CCIE, it's a much greater accomplishment.

paul.matthews Mon, 09/24/2007 - 04:42

It is a little while since I did my last lab, and that was the old two day format. I am totally convinced that what you did was only part of your score. In those days marking was kind of by interview - at the end of the session, everyone was taken out of the room and you were called back one by one, and asked questions on what you had done. It was possible under such marking to lose marks for something that was configured correctly, and possibly to retrieve marks for somethiong not quite right.

I also believe that the way one handled onself during the test mattered - the way one sought clarification of questions could influence the way one was marked if oe was borderline on a question IYSWIM.

Now the marking is done behind closed doors so to speak, That whole position may be less relevant, but one cannot help but wonder...

flash2200 Mon, 09/24/2007 - 16:42

Ref Kevin's post...

Wow! I could not have put it better myself. Hope Cisco gets the message...

As for CCIE, in my view its the only cisco cert that still has any credibility.

jcarrabine Wed, 09/26/2007 - 08:46

wow flash2200 well put.

I worked very hard to attain my CCNP. I feel I am very knowledgeable about routing and switching, not to mention MPLS IPv6 QOS VPN and etc. It's very saddening to see fellow Cisco technical people knocking other certifications. Maybe you should re-phrase you statements to say people who used braindumps compromise the certification. There are many CCNA's and CCNP's who worked hard and are good at doing the job that their respective certification taught them.

If Cisco really wants to thwart braindumping they would reduce the cost of their tests. If the test was say $20 who would be worried about loosing that? Not everyone has the company they work for shelling out $125 per-test for associate and professional level testing. By using a braindump the person testing has bought a little insurance. Failing a Cisco test repeatedly would probably be a bit tough on the wallet for some. Do I condone dumps--NO! Is the price of Cisco tests a major reason for the use of dumps--you best your a** ESPECIALLY in 3rd world countries that are poor already. Will Cisco lower the price of their exams to make certification to make it easier for those who can't afford it multiple times--NO there is too much money to be made from certifications.

flash2200 Wed, 09/26/2007 - 14:39

Hmmm... My comments are valid and I stand by them.

I find your comments bewildering... My statements reflect the reality that having a professional level cert on your resume really does not offer any indication of someones ability anymore. The whole point of the certification program is to provide other people (ie: potential employers) with some level of assurance that the candidate under consideration for a job has the foundation knowledge such that they can "probably" do it.

Thanks to the brain dump sites having the cert on your resume offers no such assurance. If you got your cert the honest way by studying for it then you should be pushing cisco to crack down on the brain dump sites as well.

As for lowering prices that won't happen and for good reason. If it just cost $20 to take a test people will just keep taking them repeatedly whether they are ready to or not (tying up testing centers I might add) until they pass. At least by keeping the price in the $125 range most people are more likely to write only when they are truly ready.

Using a "brain dump" as "a little insurance" is no excuse for cheating and that is what it is plain and simple.


cyphur353 Wed, 09/26/2007 - 15:19

I said before - regardless of whether you 'dumped the whole test, or learned it all the hard way - these days, the certifications below CCIE just get your foot in the door. You still have to sell yourself.

They serve a great/not-so-great role in that certain jobs won't even be open to apply to w/o a certain level of certification. Unfortunately, while this would be a wonderful thing in a world full of honest folks, in reality, it just gives folks more incentive to cheat, so they can at least get the interview. Two sided sword, if I ever saw one.

I wouldn't hire someone even with a CCIE w/o them negotiating through a technical interview successfully. It's just good business practices, and basic common sense.

Oh - and the exams went up to $150 per exam now. I think it's a good thing - so that way the folks who REALLY want them, will still do so, while many fakers won't want to shell out the cash. I wouldn't mind seeing the cost go to $200/exam if it helped with the certification's credibility.

paul.matthews Thu, 09/27/2007 - 00:20

What about extending the time period allowed between retries? That wuld put an end to brute force approach to sertification.

Kevin Dorrell Thu, 09/27/2007 - 04:14

Effectively they have done that by letting the 6-month booking list become full.

Kevin Dorrell


jcarrabine Fri, 09/28/2007 - 01:42


Good point I didn't really think of that. What I don't understand is how can a braindump know about sims and reproduce them? On the BSCI I had several and I am almost certain that if I had missed them all then I would not have passed the test.

As a result of this thread I did a search on CCIE "practice tests", and I found a site that offers one

They offer the CCIE written *and* the lab and offer a guarantee that the candidate will pass. According to certguard they are known in the Db as a braindump site. So what to do? Are all certs in jeopardy?

jcarrabine Fri, 09/28/2007 - 02:05

As an addendum to my last post does anyone think the R/S certification will explode with lab rats with the invent of Dynagen/Dynamips? Now that R/S is one day, and from what I have heard all config no troubleshooting, does anyone think that the level of certs in R/S will really increase in the next couple of years.

I think that Dynamips gives people the ability to do advanced configs using high end router images. It also allows for multiple router instances, thus doing away with having to buy expensive Cisco hardware or years of enterprise experience with multiple protocols. Most of the topologies I have seen for R/S require a minimum of 6 routers to do the lab. This equates to thousands of dollars in Cisco hardware, or one free program and a hopped up Linux/Windows box. Only time will tell. They also have a PIX simulator for the CCIE security wannbes.

The only short coming I can find with Dynamips is that I doesn't simulate switches, but even if all you had to do was assign a loopback off of your PC, go into a real 3550, trunk to another from there, you are still saving a considerable amount of money. So then you end up with CCIE's that can config the crap out of a router, but what does it say about actually working on a enterprise network, and being able to troubleshoot it? Does this also present a possible certification credibility issue?

cyphur353 Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:46

I know it! I'm about to take it in a few months, not looking forward to spending ~$320 for a single exam. However, if it will help solidify the cert, I can manage.

paul.matthews Fri, 09/28/2007 - 02:55

I just did the V3 in August. While obviously I can't say much I will say the blueprint is pretty accurate. Make sure you REALLY know your routing protocols - OSPF, EIGRP and BGP along with route selection and the way the protocols work.


Wilson Samuel Fri, 09/28/2007 - 10:22

Hi Paul,

Well said, after two un-successfull attempts of 350-001 (v3), I must admit that passing that exam is no joke.

It really drills the candidate's capability in OSPF, SWITCHING, BGP and EIGRP.

I'm presently using the OSPF Case Studies , BGP Case Studies and EIGRP Case studies from and shall re-attempt.

Any advice will be highly appreciable.

Thanks and Regards,

Wilson Samuel

compsolv Fri, 09/28/2007 - 12:48

Hi Wilson!

I am one of the authors/developers of a 350-001 simulation engine that I would like for you to check out.

Notice that our questions feature More Information links that lead you to the documents that the actual Cisco exam authors used to create their questions!

I look forward to your feedback!

Anthony J. Sequeira


Nuno Lobao Thu, 11/10/2011 - 09:53

Although it is perfectly understandable that maybe a big percentage  of Cisco certified people have not attained the required knowledge to  pass entry level exams or professional level exams or certification,  there are many facts that enter in consideration in this matter, reason  must come on top of all of them before making any offensive statements  like accusing entry or professional level certified people!

To make this short, im just gonna point out a few pointers:

1- Exams cost- this is important, but it should be  look at as an investment not as a cost. im not a ritch person and my  ccna exam cost me 280€. In my country the average IT salary is around  1200 - 1500 euros/month. Yes it is a very expensive exam but also a very  important investment if:

a. You commit yourself to take some time of your life and get to  know all about what is to know about that specific certification. Mind  that these are investments for our advancement in our professional  lives.

b. Study material - Very, Very, Very expensive, from  books to hardware/simulators/emulators, again it is an investment which  some can easily afford and some just cannot afford.

2-  Can you get to your exam and have full understanding of every topic  with the resources available to you by the "official" study material?

Maybe  in some cases, in my case i had questions in my ccna exam (july 2011)  which were not mentioned in the study materials that i purchased, what  saved me from those unexpected questions was some years of sys admin  experience that i already have, so this is kind of a twist here. Mind  that for some of you the ccna exam covers 10x more study knowledge than a  ccna taken 6 or 10 years ago. I would call this like in BGP(a black  hole) of that specific required knowledge, yes the knowledge is required  but its not covered in the study material as in (the route exists but  its not injected into the iBGP protocol, so there is no way to know  about it). (maybe a stupid analogy but you get my point).

3-  Can you get away with braindumping through ccna and ccnp and get away  with it? Im not new in the IT world but im new to cisco world and i'll  tell you, you will NOT get away with what i call a "fake certification",  there is no way to do it, yes you can pass the exam but you wont be  able to pass the technical interview, and if you do, may God All Mighty  help you because your in a lot of trouble!!! You'll burn in half an hour  and you will risk yourself to be in a sort of a employment black list!  Not to mention the danger of putting in some braindump guy to manage  hyper sensitive vlans, vpn's, security or routing tables which can cause  thausands if not millions to a company! They wont pass the interviews  thats a guaranteed!!!

So, what is my point here and where am i getting?  Logic alone tells me that more than 50% of the people who wave  "anti-braindumps" flags have used braindumps before! And it is not just  me stating this, make a quick search online!

Another  thing, it is very offensive to see a comment putting people who are  trying to clime the ladder to the top (ccie) that have achieved (ccna,  or ccnp in this case) or are in their way to achieve it, to be "stamped"  or "recognized" as "fake proffesionals", not only offensive but  demonstrates a very wide lack of general understanding! If only life was  that simple...It also demonstrates fear IMHO because the old ccnp's  certifications for example are the today topics of study for the ccna  and so as cisco is shape the certification paths pointing to ccie more  knowledge is required but also a smooth transition is being made to get  to the top and that also scares many people, which is also  understandable, 'No king likes to be dumped off of his throne'! Dont  wanna get of topic here so im gonna wrap this up with 2 last statements  which one of them i am going to quote words from Todd Lammle itself  reffering to the new 2011 CCNP certification (which i am currently  studying for, not braindumping!):

1- After 6 years of working in the IT field as a  system administrator/IT specialist/Support/helpdesk (skills in:  micr0$0ft, linux, vmware, and many applications required to support  these kind of infrastructures), and having some certifications from  other vendors i took my ccna exam after spending 8 months studying very  hard including weekends, even bought a 3640 router with several BRI and  serial ports and a 871w, bought a new computer so i can run as many  routers i can in gns (when this money could have been used to buy myself  a pair of glasses, health first right? No, im a passionate guy!), i  really feel disgusted being stamped as a fake professional in a  statement like i read on this treahth although i understand the need to  spot fakers, this thread is not formulated in a correct or proper  manner! If life were that simple we would just Nuke the planet, their all "terrorists right"?

2-Todd Lammle:

"I know a lot of people ask me this every day.

I have a hard time just keeping up with the CCNA!

There are new CCNA materials coming out every day.

I remember 10 years ago I wrote a book and didn't have to think about it again for at least 2 years...those days are long gone.

Cisco Press has some CCNP material out, although I cannot say  if it is good or bad, but they are the only ones that have anything out  at all. I doubt you can pass the exam with it, but I am sure you can  use it for studying and learning. You'll probably need pass4sure or  other online study material after you read all the books.

Well, thanks for posting and I am glad you like my book!


Todd Lammle "


How  do i interpret this? Very simple, Todd Lammle is clearly a very down to  Earth person, his statement said it all! Of course he is not  encouraging people to braindump, he is simply saying that it is not  possible to pass the exam with the available study material.

Bottom line: i do not agree with braindumping, i like  to study but i respect every one specially the ones i do not know  anything about. People should be conscious that when lying their just  lying to themselves.

*It is Not my intention to offend anyone


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