Testkings etc.

Unanswered Question
Apr 7th, 2008

I apologize in advance, but I am just tired. Tired of braindumps. Throughout my career I've met too many people with professional certifications, like CCNP and CCDP, that did not even know how to properly configure basic OSPF, EIGRP passive interface, or an ACL...

I want braindumps to stop.


So I started this petition at http://www.stopbraindumps.com/


Do you think it will be enough?

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Overall Rating: 4.6 (23 ratings)
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jim_berlow Mon, 04/07/2008 - 15:55

I agree that braindumps are an industry issue. One other idea that I have heard is that vendors (such as Cisco) could offer the test a limited number of times per year. An example would be one test date per quarter (or other similar timing mechanism). Each testing has a different pool of questions. There would be no brain dumps as no one would know the test content ahead of time.

Pavel Bykov Mon, 04/07/2008 - 23:21

Limiting the frequency is an interesting idea, but I cannot evaluate the consequences as tester might just as well use braindumps but not as often. So this would just stop fast certification acquisition.


But aside from that, we do not need the lines to the testing facilities, or overpriced tests, or black market with test dates.


Certification has to represent an ability of an individual, but it should be readily available. No one would like to study really hard and then find out they have to wait half a year to take the exam.

Hi There


I would like to see a lab added to the professional level certifications. It does not have to be a 8 hour marathon like the CCIE and does not have to test every aspect of the material covered. But a 2 or 3 hour lab where some parts of the material are actaully tested and a candidate has to demonstrate that they can actaully configure the technology tested to the required level before they receive the certification.


To be clear for the CCNP for which I am currently studying I would propose a 2-3 hour lab for each of the four modules. Same goes for the SP, VP IP and DP is possible.


Best Regards,


Michael

Pavel Bykov Tue, 04/08/2008 - 02:20

That would be very great.


Certification test would be more expensive, but the LAB will be definitely worth it. I would totally support it.


But on the other hand, just like with current braindumps, companies like Test King etc., would steal the content and after a while there will be all materials available.


So with the lab, it's important to create a good practical exam, with a lot of questions and possibilities, to thoroughly test the topic.


Kevin Dorrell Thu, 04/10/2008 - 04:55

I like the idea of a mini lab, but it would add a lot to the cost.


I would like to see the simulations extended. After all, there are plenty of tools like Dynamips they could use.


They should make hundreds of mini-scenarios, needing, say, 20 minutes each to complete, and put 6 in every prof level exam. If they made enough different scenarios, it would no longer be practicable for the braindump sites to collect enough of them to be useful.


Kevin Dorrell

Luxembourg


ha ha ha no need to brag here in this forum. Why you don't you complain Cisco itself. Tell them to modify their exams so that no one will take any advantages of such braindumps.


I also want to see only capable candidates with having enough knowledge to pass such exams. But reality is that, certification is big business which starts right from USA and so all these braindumps.


So no need to complain and persuade people to sign petition which never going to work. Anyway best of luck! Anyway I am not going to sign it! Ask Cisco first then others.


Pavel Bykov Thu, 04/10/2008 - 07:58

Certifications are business as well, but it's not their primary purpose.


Cisco is not going to listen to such ideas, unless there is a profound support for the cause. And trust me, I did ask. I asked them personally on several occasions. But it does not work that way.


That is why I'm looking to gather support first. Many thousands of people like me want braindumps to go away. What we need is to gather our efforts in one place.


That's why I think a simple petition is a good start.

HoustonG33K Thu, 04/10/2008 - 13:03

Quite whining. Not everyone works on all aspects of networking every day. A person may receive a certification and be just as knowledgeable as the rest but not work on 1 area for a while. If he goes back to that area and doesn't remember everything right away, he doesn't deserve the cert? Cisco Certifications are fine. I think they have made them a lot harder lately and if a person passes the test they deserve the cert.

My .02

Pavel Bykov Thu, 04/10/2008 - 15:24

Donnie, this you are exactly what is wrong with the community. Certification is deserved by an individual who passes the test WITHOUT CHEATING, i.e. using braindumps. As I write on the website, a 12-year old kid is able to memorize questions and answers, without understanding a topic.

Like Michael pointed out in the previous post, I'm not the one who is whining, Cisco admitted themselves that there is a problem with braindumps. I'm just trying to organize an effort to change how certifications are created.

Noone who is not cheating will not be affected by the change, certification is not going to become harder. It's going to become more cheating resistant.

Not punk-buster in CS resistant, but more resistant non the less.


P.S.: Cisco wants you to stay actively involved and knowledgeable on the subject to keep your certification valid. That is why they require recertifications.

HoustonG33K Thu, 04/10/2008 - 16:36

I misunderstood your thread then. I do pay for the Testking software because I do not test well at all. I do however learn the material. I love this field and cannot seem to learn enough. I thought you were saying that anyone who buys Testking is a cheater. I do not buy it to memorize the questions and answers but to test what I have learned before going into a real test. I work for a large Service provider and deploy Cisco voice and data networks. In my area there are only 2 of us and I have more experience than my counter-part. I do not have anyone to fall back on so I have to learn the material for the certifications. So I guess my question to you is, do you consider everyone who buys study materials (practice tests, simulators) a cheater?


I guarantee you when I pass my test tomorrow I will be proficient in CVOICE.


Donnie


Hi slidersv


Let me tell you, CCNA or CCNP is not that easy what you think! No one will pass CCNA by just memorising few hundred braindumps questions as you mentioned. You must be well aware that there are two simulation (and may be more) questions which cannot be memorized like braindumps. Apart from that there are few hundreds router and switches commands which are not covered in these braindumps, right? And IP address, subnet calculations (maths) cannot be memorized (or candidates are smart enough to memorize all that IP and subnet addresses?)

Despite of having experience in networking field and rigorous studies, I failed CCNA exams for the first time. I took me another three months more hard work with practice of more than 3 thousands questions, 100 of simulations (sorry I am not rich enough to buy real routers) then only I made my way to CCNA with very little margin.


So firstly I don't believe what you said- that people pass due to braindumps only. Furthermore, if Cisco is not caring about its exams then why you? As few pointed out in this forum that braindumps can be treated as learning enforcement materials, not its negative aspects, so be positive and think positive!



dbeare Thu, 04/10/2008 - 21:15

To anyone who calls a braindump a learning tool, that is the biggest load of garbage i've ever heard. Braindumps give you the exact questions and exact answers from the exam. That isn't a re-enforcement of knowledge, that is cheating yourself. I've met people who were paper CCNA's, and they couldn't so much as log into a router or switch. If you understand, truly understand, the theory, the test is a cakewalk. IP addresses and subnet calculations can't be memorized? Yes they can, but if you want to tell yourself they can't, fine. There are tons of tricks to that sort of thing.


I wish Cisco would make these tests cheat proof. If they would pull the questions from a pool of a few thousand, it might start to be more difficult. And if you don't think that they have the resources, you're crazy. Hopefully they do start to take it seriously so that the certs mean something again.


Sorry… dbeare !


Your words….” I've met people who were paper CCNA's, and they couldn't so much as log into a router or switch. If you understand, truly understand, the theory, the test is a cakewalk. IP addresses and subnet calculations can't be memorized? Yes they can, but if you want to tell yourself they can't, fine. There are tons of tricks to that sort of thing.”


I hope you did not get your CCNA or CCNP certificates without completing CCNA simulation questions on actual CCNA exams, right? I believe that you and rest of people like you did not do CCNA or CCNP without knowing enable command? Be realistic, no one will ever get CCNA without knowing such simple commands like enable, as you mentioned.


And as far as IP address is concern, if people find easy methods of doing things, which is not cheating! It is called cleverness of people; find easy way to solve difficult problems!


Yes, I agree Cisco should make exams more realistic and more practical, so that people who get certified after hard work should get observe in job market soon.



Pavel Bykov Fri, 04/11/2008 - 00:08

I am not the only one who has problems with braindumps. Cisco admitted themselves that braindumps is a huge problem that needs to deal with.


Remember, you are signing Certification Agreement, and if you read it, in the agreement it states that you cannot do exactly this. If they would found out you do it, they would strip you of your certification.


Do not be mistaken - simulations are questions too. There are limited number of simulations and they can be memorized.




As for the other questions, they are all answered in Frequent arguments on the stopbraindumps.com website.


From the website:

Argument: Certification test is expensive. I don't want to fail.

Response: The value of the certification is great, and to achieve that value Cisco is spending considerable amount of money. By using braindumps, that value is lost, and certification is becoming a piece of printing paper for your printer at most. Also, most companies will pay for your certification test, if you explain to your boss what value it has for you. I have not seen a case where that would not be possible. As for myself, I payed for all my certification tests myself. Because certification holds such a great value for me, the cost of the test is minuscule compared to the effort I had to spend to achieve the understanding required


and


Argument: I just want to check If I know the material.

Response: But that is why every decent book has review questions for every chapter. So do official training materials. Or if anyone is studying from Wendell's book, there are questions at the beginning and the end of the chapters. There are many ways to assess your knowledge: configure the technology in the lab or in semi-production network, configure it on your PC using DynaMips router emulator, or simply look in the glossary for all the terms used in the technology and describe on a piece of paper what it means in your own words. The possibilities are endless, but looking at the real questions with answers is definitely not one of them.

Sorry… dbeare !


Your words….” I've met people who were paper CCNA's, and they couldn't so much as log into a router or switch. If you understand, truly understand, the theory, the test is a cakewalk. IP addresses and subnet calculations can't be memorized? Yes they can, but if you want to tell yourself they can't, fine. There are tons of tricks to that sort of thing.”


I hope you did not get your CCNA or CCNP certificates without completing CCNA simulation questions on actual CCNA exams, right? I believe that you and rest of people like you did not do CCNA or CCNP without knowing enable command? Be realistic, no one will ever get CCNA without knowing such simple commands like enable, as you mentioned.


And as far as IP address is concern, if people find easy methods of doing things, which is not cheating! It is called cleverness of people; find easy way to solve difficult problems!


Yes, I agree Cisco should make exams more realistic and more practical, so that people who get certified after hard work should get observe in job market soon.


Anyway it still did not convince me to sign any petition.


It is like you are saying... “Kill all the hackers, because they hacked my system”

I say “Make your system hack proof, so that no one will hack it”


Sorry… dbeare !


Your words….” I've met people who were paper CCNA's, and they couldn't so much as log into a router or switch. If you understand, truly understand, the theory, the test is a cakewalk. IP addresses and subnet calculations can't be memorized? Yes they can, but if you want to tell yourself they can't, fine. There are tons of tricks to that sort of thing.”


I hope you did not get your CCNA or CCNP certificates without completing CCNA simulation questions on actual CCNA exams, right? I believe that you and rest of people like you did not do CCNA or CCNP without knowing enable command? Be realistic, no one will ever get CCNA without knowing such simple commands like enable, as you mentioned.


And as far as IP address is concern, if people find easy methods of doing things, which is not cheating! It is called cleverness of people; find easy way to solve difficult problems!


Yes, I agree Cisco should make exams more realistic and more practical, so that people who get certified after hard work should get observe in job market soon.


Anyway it still did not convince me to sign any petition.


It is like you are saying... “Kill all the hackers, because they hacked my system”

I say “Make your system hack proof, so that no one can hack it”


dbeare Fri, 04/11/2008 - 07:25

If you take a class at a college and have full knowledge as to what the questions and answers will be on the exam, is it not called cheating? Does such cheating not only mean you fail the course, but also usually get you put on academic probation or possible kicked out? Why should these certifications not be held to the same standards?


If you actually work towards certification, and i'm sorry, but the CCNA is not that difficult with the proper work put in, then you will pass. I studied my butt off, bought equipment with my own money and read constantly for 4 months and passed the CCNA just fine.


The CCNA is just one small piece of the pie as far as the networking world is concerned. Getting a job just because you have a CCNA is quite unrealistic in many places, as experience will trump it any day of the week in most good employers. But I hope Cisco puts in the effort to make the certification worth it. Do you ever wonder why the CCIE is the most sought after certification in the industry? Because there is no possible way to fake the knowledge required to pass it. I'm not saying Cisco should have the same requirements for its lower certs, but it would be nice if they held up as well as the CCIE did.

sarahr202 Sun, 11/16/2008 - 13:19

if one use the sides such as test king which lists the real exam questions is a plain cheater period!

use the other resources which does not use real questions from cisco exams.

I have been studying for ccnp for a long time.

I use cisco net pro, cisco book and routers and switches. As for the equipments being expensive, i use 2500 cisco routers to practice routing protocols, 2900 switch to practice stp, rstp, trunking etc. The cost? under 100 dollars on ebay.

2500 router costs around 20 on ebay.

The bottom line is using real exam questions even for reviewing is cheating.

brain dump may help us get the certification quick but it wont make us real network engineer.


Pavel Bykov Thu, 04/10/2008 - 23:59

I work for a Gold Cisco partner, and I am an instructor. I know just hard hard the tests are, but only without braindumps.


It is true that people pass exams without studying just by using braindumps. I have seen it with my own eyes many times.


Also, the tests have only about 400 questions in the pool, there are really no more questions. I don't know what the 3000 questions were but you're a proof that you cannot learn from questions. If would use braindumps you would pass with an extremely high score, but you would not know the material just as you said - you were not able to pass exam after going over 3000 questions, therefore it did not teach you enough about technology. Because that is what is tested.


I am not rich enough to buy my own routers either, almost no one is. But that is why I use dynamips.


Going through questions will not teach you the technology, that's why you have probabably failed. If you instead concentrated on learning the technology, you would have done much bettter.

dgoodridge Fri, 04/11/2008 - 00:39

I personally have no objection to people using dumps. Just remember that any good interview puts this issue to bed..........

Pavel Bykov Fri, 04/11/2008 - 01:48

See what Microsoft has to say:

"Ultimately, this devalues the achievements of the many individuals who legitimately passed exams thanks to in-depth study and hands-on technology experience"


Or what about the people that are hired as professionals at the same time when they are not? Companies cannot easily fire employees. It takes time and money and legal procedures. It is many times easier for a company to train the cheaters all over again, to the level they already claimed they are, spending tens of thousands, thus taking the job from the candidate who has not cheated.

davehartburn Fri, 04/11/2008 - 07:50

Until Cisco provide detailed lists of topics to be covered in the exams, brain dumps will continue to be an important learning resource.


I recently failed my BCMSN exam on the first attempt and with no local testing centres, the experience cost me a day off work, a coule of hours travel each way and the cost of the exam. Not including the lost wages, this was just over $300 (US) lost.


I failed by 1% after hitting a couple of questions on one particular aspect of HSRP. Cisco rules prevent me from saying what was in the exam, but this bit of HSRP and another small topic (2 questions) were not covered in the course books, not covered in the prep centre, not covered in the practice exams that came with the book and not listed on the course web pages as a topic.


I found it very frustrating.


Like a good student, I then read around the topics and then searched for an exam simulator asking questions on these topics. The TestKing brain dumps were the only ones I could find and helped proved that I had learnt the information that had previously let me down.


I passed the exam on the second attempt after another day off work and another $300.


I agree with most that people who pass certifications need to fully understand the subject, however without a study guide giving an outline, students are being left in the dark.


As for certification in general. Anybody who employs someone, just because they have a certification, is asking for trouble. You need to look at that persons experience and ask sensible questions at the job interview. At one interview, I was given 5 minutes infront of a SSH session to a solaris box and asked to tell me what they could about the box. Apparently the last person they employed was Sun Certified Sys Admin, but knew very little. You could do the same with a cisco router or just ask someone to talk their way through a printout of a running config.

Pavel Bykov Fri, 04/11/2008 - 08:22

David Hartburn, are you kidding? You support braindumps just because you failed the test, and claim that there was no info on what will be on the exam?


Trust me, Cisco ALWAYS TELLS YOU EXACTLY what it is going to test in the exam blueprint, and will not test you on anything that is not in the blueprint.


And for BCMSN and HSRP? look: http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/current_exams/642-812.html

It's all there. All you had to do was look at the blueprint and check the requirements. But instead you used the braindump.


All blueprints are a couple clicks away on Cisco Certification website.


Without braindump you couldn't pass the exam, but after reading one you did.

davehartburn Mon, 04/14/2008 - 03:18

No, I'm not kidding.


It basically lists HSRP, does not give any further details. I hit one aspect of HSRP that I had not come across and could not answer. The blueprints are a very broad overview. To say they tell you exactly what is on the course is just rubbish.


Likewise, it lists you have to know how to configure a wireless client. This topic is not covered in the BCMSN book at all. While it is very easy, if you look at the braindumps, it asks some very specific questions about what certain icons mean, how the cisco client interacts with MS Windows etc. Things that if very easy to find out and try in the field, but you have to resort to an educated guess in an exam.


The braindump provided some very useful revision questions that I could not find elsewhere.


I would still have passed the resit exam without the braindump. The braindump give me the confidence that I actually knew the 'missing' subjects.


I'm busy doing the ISCW course and there is only one book available for that. A lot of people on here, Amazon reviews of that book etc, all say it is lacking and does not cover all the information you need.


I have two choices:

1) Study the Cisco book to the death, build all the labs etc and know the subject off by heart, then sit the exam, find a few suprises, fail by a couple of percent, learn the topics I didn't know about and resit, providing I have enough spare cash and time.


or 2) Study as option 1, then hit the briaindumps and use them to verify the 95% of the course I already know and point me in the direction of the other 5% I did not know about. Search the cisco website, build labs etc to learn the other 5%, go up to London and pass first time (hopefully).


I agree with you that people passing qualifications without actually understanding them are a worry, however braindumps do have a place for people like me who want to learn a lot about networking and want the qualification to pass them up. If they are a suppliement to actually learning the course then they are a very good and complete resource.

kdaramola Tue, 10/14/2008 - 10:48

You the can get the certification with briandumps with job.Nowaday company are not only interested in cert but also experience candidate.

vazquez.jorge Sat, 11/22/2008 - 14:08

Over the years I have seen many fake CCNAs.. People who probably studied the answers from sites like braindumps. So when I became a factor in the hiring process, rest assured that my interview questions were based on CCNA knowledge, and not CCNA questions like other interviewers were doing. I am now in a position where I deal with many IT managers/directors and most of their complaints are from less worthy/skilled colleages with certifications. I once had a director tell me his CCNA didnt know how to telnet..

Kevin Dorrell Mon, 04/14/2008 - 04:45

I am getting irritated by braindumps.


Not only are braindumps cheating, but the evidence is that most of them are rubbish. Witness the number of postings on this forum that say "I found this question on a braindump. They say the answer is B, and I think it is A and C." If the answers in a braindump need to be verified on the forum, then what use is the braindump in the first place?


I suppose I should be maliciously glad that they give the wrong answers. It proves they are rubbish. They are the blind leading the blind. Where do they get the questions and answers from? From people who have gone into the exam with a braindump in order to collect information for a braindump. It it any wonder that half the answers are wrong.


As for the discussion of the blueprint ... it is adequate. If the blueprint says HSRP, then you should know HSRP. Not just the answers to specific questions about it, but actually understand it so that the questions come as no surprise. If the blueprint says HSRP, then you should know HSRP without having to resort to a braindump.


If you want some indication of the level you should know it at, just look at the Cisco course material. Don't give me the stuff about it being too much detail ... that is the level you should know it at to pass the CCNA.


It's a bad day, in case you hadn't guessed! ;-)


Kevin Dorrell

Luxembourg


jcrussell Mon, 04/14/2008 - 07:03

I just hope that Cisco can continue to keep the CCIE lab relatively safe, as compared to the CCxA and CCxP level exams. The A-level and P-level certs have become somewhat devalued IMO, due to the presence of people who just use dumps and don't know squat.

Why don't Cisco make all its exams practical only, like Red Hat. But reality is that Cisco is busy in making money only, not really concerned about exam takers. I am very sad that even during CCNA or CCNP exams (where candidate pay more than US$100) candidate have no chance to see real routers/switches. They are tested on poor flash simulator which does not support all real Cisco OS commands. And funnier is that Cisco hides its weakness and blames it on exam takers.


Here is my suggestion to Cisco and all others who support Cisco:


Make the exam more meaningful

Make exam 100% practical

Don't give exam takers chance to cheat

Create more meaningful study materials so that exam taker will not turn to braindumps

Bring more meaningful simulator which support real router commands

Test candidate on real routers and switches rather than MCQs



davehartburn Wed, 04/30/2008 - 02:58

Practical exams are not a bad idea. I feel it gives a better test of a persons skills.


One thing I complained about earlier in the thread was the BCMSN now contains a section on wireless clients not included in the Cisco book. Questions can relate to flashing lights on cisco wireless cards or the colour and meaning of icons on their client. Fairly trivial stuff, but if encountered for the first time in a multi choice question you could drop some fairly easy marks. Not one, none brain dump, exam simulator had any wireless client questions.


You could have a scenario where a wireless client did not work and you had to debug from both the client end and the access point. Answer a few questions that you could only achieve with the correct debugging technique and eventually get the end result of a working client. That is a far better test of skills and would give people who had not bought an expensive cisco wireless card a sporting chance.

ccannon88567 Fri, 02/20/2009 - 00:59

This is the wrong attitude.


""Replied by: jcrussell - MDE, CCIE - Apr 14, 2008, 7:03am PST



I just hope that Cisco can continue to keep the CCIE lab relatively safe, as compared to the CCxA and CCxP level exams. The A-level and P-level certs have become somewhat devalued IMO, due to the presence of people who just use dumps and don't know squat. ""





Some of us are still aspiring to become CCIE and are studying through correct and respectable channels.


To just wright off associate and profesional level certs and concentrate on protecting CCIE is arragont.


I for one, am a proud CCNA working towards CCNP and I will be very extremely proud when I achieve my CCNP.


It will be some years before I go for CCIE and so the A & P level certs are still of significant importance to me and hundreds of thousands around the world - If not more in terms of the market as many (MOST) employers simply just cannot afford or do not have the requirement to hire a CCIE.


We should be concentrating on STOPPPING BRAIN DUMPING and not just protecting the CCIE LAB!


suelange Wed, 04/30/2008 - 05:39

Well, when I was hiring engineers, I solved the problem this way:


If you had a cert, you were qualified for an interview.


At the interview you will be given a machine and a task. If you can do it, fine we will talk. If not, have a nice day.


Why do people think certifications, like college degrees, guarantee aptitude? They guarantee a certain amount of intestinal fortitude but nothing more. Even without using cheaters like TestKing some folks are good test takers but not good in the trenches.


It is NOT the certification industry's job to pick your employees for you. That's your job. Build a process and follow it RELIGIOUSLY for everyone you ever interview. Same task for every single candidate. Then you will be both legal at hiring time, and also 100% sure you are getting quality stock.


Seems Simple enough to me...

Urfan Khaliq Mon, 10/13/2008 - 21:04

Good comment, its true just because you have a cert doesnt mean that you automatically know everything, just like a graduate from any subject, will not know everything in what he has studied. thats where tech questions in an interview would seperate the good from the bad.


I would say one thing though, just like its expected that someone who studied rather then used brain dumps will be better "quality stock" it is also unfair to think that if they dont know it they are no good because it could be that the individual is out of practise or hasnt worked on a particular topic in some time. for example, someone who is a CCNP may not have worked with OSPF in a while because he/she used EIGRP at work, or may not have worked with multicasting every as he/she doesnt use this at work, doesnt mean they are then useless if they cant answer any of them questions when asked, so its fair to allow brain dumps in my opinion providing they are a top up to real studying beforehand!


Peace!



ross_rulz Wed, 10/15/2008 - 22:57

At the end of the day people who use them are just cheating themselves.


Ross.

muca Sun, 10/19/2008 - 17:03

My goal is always, always to learn, learn, learn, when I am studying for cisco exams. Getting the score to pass is just a consequence.


People who memorize don't realize it's not good for them to do it!! They are immature.


Cisco books should include questions that are more similar to the real exam and that prepare you better.


The questions/simulations of the cisco press books and cd's are too simple, not similar to the exam at all, so you think you know the subject when you acctually don't.


I failed to pass the BSCI exam although I read 2 books, labs etc.. I just passed when I got the book from Jeff Doyle which includes troubleshooting questions etc etc


Now I am looking for books for the ISCW exam and from what I can see on the forum lots of people say they've got questions on the exam that are not even briefly explained on the books.


So what I think would make a big difference is for Cisco/CiscoPress to include questions similar to the exam and books that prepare you better for the exams.


Murilo


lffrwatson Tue, 10/28/2008 - 06:09

People that brain dump have given me several laughs in my career. Love seeing a newly hired tech fumble and look at me like I'm stupid when I ask a subnet question or a routing concept. And good luck trying to get them to understand the difference between a layer 2 vlan and a layer 3 vlan. I have to admit a CCNA now days to me is a piece of paper with the cisco logo on it. You have to get a few professional certs to even stand out in the crowd. I'm fixing to take my ccie lab and like I tell people once you get the CCIE you finally get the respect you deserve. Good luck brain dumping on the ccie lab.

howtonetwork Sun, 11/23/2008 - 04:20

I don't think you will ever be able to wipe them out so long as people will want a 'quick fix' for their lives. This includes get rich quick and lose weight fast sites. It is just catering to a market demand for people who do not want to put the hard work in.


Anyone who passes with a braindump is going to suffer in the long run so why worry about them?


Certguard exists to fight against brain dumps and I think you can report sites to them:


http://www.certguard.com/


Thanks


Paul

bumsteadn Tue, 02/17/2009 - 19:43

I see a lot of emotions about this subject... A bunch of whiny, World of Warcraft playing, IT Geeks.. haha... Joking... !


I've been working with Cisco for years and love it. Employers know, they always know if you're real. I'm just thankful someone gave me my first shot at a Network position years ago. By the posts on this thread, seems like we all have good careers going... =)

davehartburn Wed, 02/18/2009 - 04:46

I was thinking about this thread the other day. The whole field of avoiding brain dumps is a nightmare. I have been searching for practice exams for ISCW and it appears there is still not a lot of material for ISCW or ONT out there. Almost all searches came up with brain dump sites, with TestKing and CertKiller making up 90% of hits. Many of the sites look legitimate, making it very difficult to know what is safe to go for.


If Cisco really want to stop people going for brain dumps, they need to:

1) Produce some realistic exam preperation material.

2) Produce a list of approved mock test providers, so you know you are safe getting quality material.


I assume the new forensic tests they are putting into the tests are aimed at blocking people who use braindumps?

jim_berlow Wed, 02/18/2009 - 10:15

I understand the frustration and want to share information about a website that helps to identify legitimate practice test vendors vs. brain dump sites. Please check out: www.certguard.com.


This website also has several references to websites that offer "safe" or "legitimate" practice tests that do not infringe on NDAs.


While this doesn't resolve the underlying issue, this site does try to help certification candidates to find valid practice tools. I hope you find this helpful!


Jim

ccannon88567 Thu, 02/19/2009 - 08:43

Excellent comment....


Cisco should advertise this though, not just rely on us guys who care.

tperrier Thu, 02/19/2009 - 01:39

There are some free practice questions for ISCW (and several other exams too) on the Cisco Learning Network.

https://cisco.hosted.jivesoftware.com/community/certifications/ccnp/iscw#cisco_3


The CiscoPress book comes with practice questions too:

http://www.ciscopress.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=158720150X


Boson sells practice questions for this cert, and many others:

http://www.boson.com/Product/CIS-ES-MAX-642825-01.html

ccannon88567 Thu, 02/19/2009 - 08:41

I agree - TK is cheating pure and simple.


However, Cisco should do more to bring out practice exams because TK do not advertise the fact that they use actual questions stolen from the exam.


How many people must come across sites like TK innocently looking for study material to prepare them for taking the test after lengthy studys? I should imagine thousands if not 100's of 1000's!


Cisco should bring out their own practice questions and not just put really naff ones (which are sometimes even wrong) in the back of books and cd's accompanying books.


Also - Cisco should specificly name and shame TK because by not doing this people don't know they may be cheating.


Cisco - Please do more in terms of good quality exam prep questions and materials!


The ones who soley brain dump, I would suss you frauds out in a second if you came to interview for me for a techie role. Just a few key questions face to face and I would know if you knew your stuff!


Employers should look more at Job Experience and not rely solely on certification.


Brain Dumpers will always fall foul anyway, If they want to go through life as a fraud then let them. They will just become a joke when they can't do the basics and people start to become aware of their true potential.

muca Thu, 02/19/2009 - 17:37

Exactly....


Cisco - Please do more in terms of good quality exam prep questions!

marikakis Fri, 02/20/2009 - 01:13

Here is a guy who was innocently looking:

http://forum.cisco.com/eforum/servlet/NetProf?page=netprof&forum=Career%20Certifications&topic=Training&topicID=.ee702b3&CommCmd=MB%3Fcmd%3Dpass_through%26location%3Doutline%40%5E1%40%40.2cd227e2/5#selected_message


Good quality and realistic questions? Realistic questions are on the exam. If you think brain dumps are bad, it wouldn't make a difference if the "realistic" questions are provided by cisco or somebody else. I personally lately stopped doing even the practice tests included in CD-ROM books and focus instead on studying and thinking about the material I am reading. I also avoid reading certification guides in general (with only a couple of exceptions). They get shallow and very lengthy sometimes. Although I have no problem reading tones of pages, I do not find particularly helpful a book that would shrink down to half of its size if the word "test" was eliminated from it (know this for the test, don't need this for the test, etc.). And for all those that look for realistic questions and honestly try to learn, you might consider trying to read and answer some questions in the various NetPro sections. Realistic questions every day for free!

ccannon88567 Fri, 02/20/2009 - 01:23

Maria,


If this is the case then why do educational institutions all over the world from schools to colleges to university's provide candidates with "legitimate" testing preperation questions??


I think pre-testing questions are perfectly acceptable along with most educational institutions.

marikakis Fri, 02/20/2009 - 01:51

I am not saying that you don't need to answer some questions first. I already suggested the NetPro sections as a realistic resource. It has the advantage that you can relax a little bit and stop thinking about the test, which might cause stress to some people. Another advantage is that there are many volunteers that can help you clarify concepts and correct your misunderstandings for just a few points in the rating system.

Questions are provided in most books at the end of each chapter to test your understanding of facts. In many cases they have an open-ended format so you can test more "honestly" if you recall the whole process of how e.g. a protocol works (I don't mean memorization, I can't memorize things I don't understand, especially in a language that is not my mother tongue). If you prepare in this harder format, you will spot your weaknesses and reread what you missed. When you read something you can always make up your own legitimate questions by asking yourself: what is the issue solved by this feature? under which circumstances is it applicable?, etc.


The practice test engines and even the exams themselves are not realistic. Yeah, you know this timer, you know this protocol port number, you can eliminate some obviously incorrect answers and eventually get the question right, but hardly ever are those type of questions hard enough requiring a global understanding. Do you still wonder why cisco is introducing the open-ended question format in the CCIE lab?


Most institutions do provide questions, but I know many university professors that don't. They in fact collect all exam questions after the exam and make sure questions don't leak even from the graduate assistants (I have been there).

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