Unanswered Question
Jun 5th, 2009

Welcome to the Cisco Networking Professionals Ask the Expert conversation. This is an opportunity to learn how CUPS integrates instant messaging, phone/calendar presence and phone control with expert Michael Luo. Michael is a senior technical assistance center engineer at Cisco Systems, Inc. He works in the unified communication team which covers CUCM(CallManager), CUPS (Unified Presence), CER(Emergency REsponder/e911), etc. Before that, he worked in UCCX (IPCC Express) team. Michael has more than 15 years of experience in IT industry. Michael worked in China, Hong Kong and US for many IT vendors such as Novell, Sun, Avaya, Cisco. He holds many IT certifications such as CCIE (#6183, Routing & Switching), MCSE, MCNE, OCP, JNCIE. Michael is also a Cisco certified specialist on UCCX and CUPS and is the author of the book, "Deploying Cisco Unified Presence."

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Michael might not be able to answer each question due to the volume expected during this event. Our moderators will post many of the unanswered questions in other discussion forums shortly after the event. This event lasts through June 19, 2009. Visit this forum often to view responses to your questions and the questions of other community members.

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Overall Rating: 4.6 (5 ratings)
Tommer Catlin Fri, 06/05/2009 - 16:53

Is there any information about the CUCIMOC available yet such as SRND or techincal requirements for design? The Flash demo gives us all an idea, can you can give us more details or not until next month?

Such as CUCM requirements. (7.1?)

CUPS needed or not now? (Rumor mill churning)

Whats new in CUPS 7.1 (if that is the next version)

Thanks Michael as always!!

htluo Sat, 06/06/2009 - 06:14

For those haven't see the flash demo, here's the link:

COCIMOC is a pure client-side plug-in. EFTs (Early Field Test) have been conducted with selected customers. Now this product is in Beta test with more customers.

The ETA of release is mid-July.

CUCIMOC requires CUCM 6.1.3 or above. A new device type - CSF (Client Serivce Framework) has to be presented in CUCM > Deivce > Phone list to support it.

CUCI MOC does not require CUPS, which might be the most attractive part of it. :)

No details on CUPS 7.1 yet. Will keep you posted.


James Hawkins Mon, 06/08/2009 - 00:57

Hi Michael,

I have a customer for whon I have deployed CUCM 6.1(3), Unity Connection 2.1(3) and CUPS.

They now want to deploy a soft client that can be used as a softphone and also to control desk phones.

CUCM is synched with their AD but their corporate messaging platform is Domino rather than Exchange.

Can CUPC work in this environment and, if so, what functionality if any is lost?

The customer has license for SameTime - is this a better option than CUPC? - would I need to install IP Communicator and VT Advantage to provide softphone and video support?

Finally would you recommend upgrading to UC7 before starting the deployment? - the customer is interested in Blackberry integration so I am thinking of doing this anyway to get the better features in CUMC7 - would UC7 provide any benefits for CUPS, CUPC and/or Sametime?



htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 05:25

The following CUPC features are affected if Domino was used instead of Exchange:

1) CUPC voicemail.

CUPC only supports Unity with Exchange or Unity Connection. Unity with Domino is not officially supported yet.

2) CUPC calendar

CUPC calendar feature ("show me as in a meeting") only supports Exchange.

If customer uses Sametime as IM solution, I'd recommend PCAP (Phone Control And Presence) plug-in with Sametime. PCAP plug-in is like "CUPC lite". It has desk phone and software phone mode. Both can work with VTA to provide video calls.

UC7 provides lots of new features, such as N-node for CUPS, inter-domain federation, CSF (Client Service Framework), CUMC 7, etc.


gmarkiewicz Mon, 06/08/2009 - 01:11


Thank you for writing very good book on Presence!

I've got one issue with setup CUPS and CUCM

I cannot see phone presence in CUPC. All other features are working fine. I'm using CUPS 6.0 and CUCM 5.1, so I understand CUPS use SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY model to get the phone presence. I'm using

Extension Mobility on CUCM and users are associated with phone profiles (also I've set up users to control devices directly) and are logged in. SUBSCRIBE CSS on the SIP trunk is able to reach the

phones' DNs. All devices are in same default Presence Group.

I've done some debugging and I've find out that when I log in to CUPC account, Presence server sends "SUBSCRIBE" message to CUCM, but CUCM response with "503 Service Unavailable". I cannot find

any document how to set up CUPS 6 and CUCM 5. Could you provide me any information how to fix this problem?

Detailed SIP messages below:


SUBSCRIBE sip:[email protected];transport=tcp SIP/2.0

From: ;tag=c7a26e16



Call-ID: [email protected]

Content-Length: 0

Expires: 7200

Event: presence

Accept: multipart/related

Accept: application/pidf+xml

Accept: application/rlmi+xml

Accept: application/cpim-pidf+xml

Accept: application/aclinfo+xml


User-Agent: Cisco-PE/6.0

Supported: eventlist

Via: SIP/2.0/TCP 10.z.z.z:5070;branch=z9hG4bK6cb36502-66f3-43ce-a5ea-9aa28546ee9d

Max-Forwards: 68


SIP/2.0 503 Service Unavailable

Via: SIP/2.0/TCP 10.z.z.z:5070;branch=z9hG4bK6cb36502-66f3-43ce-a5ea-9aa28546ee9d

From: ;tag=c7a26e16

To: ;tag=222204462

Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 15:24:46 GMT

Call-ID: [email protected]


Warning: 399 "Routing failed: ccbid=2715 tcpindex=721 socket=10.z.z.z:5070'

Retry-After: 60

Content-Length: 0

were xxxx is buddy extension

10.z.z.z is CUPS

10.y.y.y is CUCM

Kind Regards


htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 05:31

"503 Service Unavailable" usually indicates a misconfigured SIP trunk.

Please check the SIP trunk security profile associated with the SIP trunk.

Make sure the SIP trunk security profile looked like this:

1) With the following options checked:

Accept Presence Subscription

Accept Out-of-Dialog REFER

Accept Unsolicited Notification

Accept Replaces Header

2) With the following options unchecked:

Enable Digest Authentication

Enable Application Level Authorization

3) Make sure incoming port is 5060.


gmarkiewicz Mon, 06/08/2009 - 06:20

Hi Michael

I can confirm that "SIP Trunk Security Profile" is set with all of these options.

Other options in security profile:

Device Security Mode: Non Secure

Incoming Transport Type: TCP+UDP

Outgoing Transport Type: TCP

Do you have any other ideas where I can find answer for this error?



htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 20:00

We need detailed CCM traces (with SIP options turned on).


htluo Tue, 06/09/2009 - 09:43

Here's the message:

SIP/2.0 503 Service Unavailable

Via: SIP/2.0/TCP 10.X.X.X:5070;branch=z9hG4bKe0a34c90-5f7f-4d23-ad80-eff3950fc709

From: ;tag=d2a02e87

To: ;tag=1926628098

Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:39:47 GMT

Call-ID: [email protected]


Warning: 399 "Routing failed: ccbid=46633 tcpindex=5125 socket=10.X.X.X:5070'

Retry-After: 60

Content-Length: 0

Would you know where that "10.X.X.X" and "10.Y.Y.Y" was configured?

gmarkiewicz Fri, 06/12/2009 - 00:20

10.X.X.X is IP address of CUPS

10.Y.Y.Y is IP address of CUCM

I've just replaced real addresses from logs with this ones because I was posting logs. Addresses are configured on servers according to cisco manuals. DNS servers are not in use.

Real addresses are:

10.X.X.X =

10.Y.Y.Y =

You can replace them back and you will get original logs.



htluo Fri, 06/12/2009 - 05:03

How may SIP trunks on CUCM side? Could you post the screenshot of each SIP trunk?


tenaro.gusatu.novici Mon, 06/08/2009 - 05:22

Hi there,

before I start with real technical questions (I already have couple in a queue) let's clear one thing: every Cisco product has a roadmap and I don't see any reason why Presence should be different. So, my question is what is happening with CUP? Will it be integrated in next CUCM release (8.0) or we can expect soon End-of-Sale or End-of-Life? Or you are going to continue development as a standalone product?

Best Regards,


htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 05:33

As far as I know, it'll be continued developing as a standalone product.


tburke100 Mon, 06/08/2009 - 07:46

Hello Michael,

Thanks for doing this.

This may be a dumb question, but I am trying to understand the UCM-CUPS call flow for configuration purposes, and I am confused about information in the


The Deployment Guide for CUPS 7.0 says to configure UCM so the SIP Trunk Security Profile for the SIP Trunk that points to CUPS has "Accept Presence Subscription, Accept Out-of-Dialog Refer, Accept Unsolicited Notification, and Accept Replaces Header" all enabled.

On the other hand, the SIP Trunk Security Profile for the SIP Trunk applied to CUPC does NOT specify that these options should be enabled.

Seems like it should be the opposite.

It makes sense to have the "Accept Presence Subscriptions" enabled on the Trunk to CUPS, but enabling the other 3 implies that CUPS is doing call control, for things like click-to-call and call transfers. I didn't think it did, and it seems you would also need to add a content token for REFER to Method/Event Routing on CUPS if it did.

It also seems like the only SIP messages between UCM and CUPS should be either SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY or PUBLISH for phone on-hook/off-hook/dnd status, depending on the integration method.

It would make more sense to me if the SIP Trunk Security Profile assigned to CUPC did have Accept Presence Subscriptions, Accept Out-of-Dialog Refer (for deskphone mode click-to-call), Accept Unsolicited Notification, and Accept Replaces Header all enabled, since CUPC is the device that is performing call control. Especially since the guide also explicitly states that CTI communication is directly between UPC and UCM, with no CUPS involvement.

Is the explanation that the CUPS SIP Trunk Security Profile is used for deskphone mode, and the CUPC SIP Trunk Security Profile is used for Softphone Mode (because CUPC doesn't support TLS, so use Digest Authent on CUPC security profile)?

Sorry, starting to go circular here. I feel like I am missing something basic?

Thanks for your help.


htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 07:56

Hi TB,

You're right. SIP trunk between CUPS and CUCM is only for phone presence. Either SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY or PUBLISH would happen on the trunk.

The document just tells you enable every possible options for safe.

Neither desk phone mode, nor soft phone mode would use the SIP trunk.

For UPC security profile, we use non-secure profile. (



tburke100 Mon, 06/08/2009 - 10:00

Thanks for the prompt response.

So just to clarify, even if all 4 are checked on the SIP Trunk Security Profile used between CUCM and CUPS, there is no possibility that anything other than "Accept Presence Subscriptions" will ever actually be used, correct?

Furthermore, even "Accept Presence Subscriptions" is not necessary anymore if you use a SIP PUBLISH Trunk?

Finally, I have another thread related to CUPS that accidentally got posted on the "Unified Commms Apps" Discussion Forum, Conversation "E164 and App Dialing Rules". Could you take a look, or should I re-post it here?



htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 19:58

"Accept Presence Subscription" will be used. If SIP PUBLISH Trunk was used, the initial subscription would still goes to CUCM. Subsequent updates will be PUBLISHed.

I'll take a look at the E164 in another thread.



tburke100 Mon, 06/08/2009 - 08:13

Hello Michael,

Basic question on CUPS.

Incoming ACL is self-explanatory (don't challenge corresponding incoming requests), but when and why is Outgoing ACL used?



htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 09:06

By default, system behavior is to deny all outgoing requests. If you want the SIP proxy to allow outgoing traffic (such as in a CVP environment), you need outgoing ACL.


tburke100 Mon, 06/08/2009 - 09:47

Thanks, that helps.

That would also explain the connection to the requirement that "Presence-->Settings--CUP CVP Support" be enabled in order to change ACL's from default. Two birds, one stone.

Vaijanath Sonvane Wed, 06/17/2009 - 03:25

Hi Michael,

I need your help. I am integrating the CUCM with OCS server using CUPS and Mediation server. I am totally new to the CUPS and OCS server. I want to know how CUPS and OCS works. Do you have any documentation of integration other than Cisco Document which is more understable. Is there any book available for Presence server to learn about the it from the begning.

Thanks in advance..

jimmolinari33 Mon, 06/08/2009 - 11:21

Hi Michael,

Love the book and all your help. I have a new one:

I have two users using CUPC and their softphone. They are remote and connected via a VPN on the same ASA. When they call each other, they get connected, but they can't hear each other. I have added the "same-security-traffic permit intra-interface" line to the ASA, but still nothing.

The callers, when they connect to a hard phone, work just fine.

Where should I start?


htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:45

In desk phone mode, the audio stream was between IP phones.

In soft phone mode, the audio stream was between two computers.

If the soft phone call seems to be connected but you're not hearing anything, I'd do packet capture on both computers.

Usually, this kind of issue was caused by NAT. If the NAT device was not application aware, it might cause the audio stream went to the wrong port.


kprangersms Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:03


I have a very unusual issue with Presence. This is for a new deployment for Cisco Unified Communication Manager (Version and Cisco Unified Presence (System version:

Currently, CUCM is not integrated with AD, while Presence has a gateway for AD.

While onsite doing the install, I created a test ID on CUCM and AD. My test ID works great and I can change my status, etc. I can also add my test ID as a contact and can see the status in the contact list as well with no issues.

Now for the problem... When I add an existing user to CUCM and CUP, I can log into CUPC and see and change the users status. I can log in and out of CUPC with no issues. Once that user is added into a contact list, their status will stop working, can not be changed and is stuck in "off line". Oddly enough, the contact list will show available.

Here is an example:

User "Steve" is added to CUP. Steve can log in and out and change his status. While logged in, Steve adds himself to his own contact list. Steve is able to change and see his status with no issue. Once Steve logs out and back into CUPC, he can no longer change his status.

I have all in and out ACL's set up to allow ALL, but still not luck. Very odd and I have Cisco TAC stumped as well.

Any suggestions would be helpful!



htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:57

Adding yourself to your own contact list is not recommended because of bug on CUPS.

You may try the following:

1) Remove the user from his own contact list.

2) Restart inter-cluster sync agent service.


kprangersms Tue, 06/09/2009 - 05:27

Thank you for your response! It turns out that since CUCM is not integrated with AD, there was an issue with the user id. The user ID in AD had some upper case characters, but the user ID in CUCM was all lower case. Everything began to work correctly once the user ID in CUCM was set to match the user ID in AD. Very odd, but glad it is now working!

Hi Michael,

I just installed and configured a CUPS for my company with existing CCM. I got some problem login to CUPC. error: "Unknown login failure", also once i got this error and try to login again, the application seems to hang.

CUPS troubleshooter shows all green, except IPMM, which is not in use.

And i also tried to restart Tomcat service and Sync agent, no luck.

Could you advise?



htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 19:54

"Unknown login failure" usually means SOAP error.

What version of CUPS are you running?

If you're running 7.x, you may go to System > Topology. Try to unassign the user and re-assign him.


htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 20:15

Have you tried to reboot the server?

You may also try the following:

1) Unlicense the user from CUCM > System > Licensing > Capability Assignment.

2) Re-license the user.

If that didn't fix the problem, we need to set the "Cisco UP Personal Communicator Profile Agent" trace level to "Debug". Recreate the problem and collect the trace.


Ayodeji Okanlawon Tue, 06/09/2009 - 00:23


This is the location of CUPC logs. Its on the pc where the client is installed

C:\Documents and Settings\user\Local Settings\Application Data\Cisco\Unified Personal Communicator\Logs

Where user= user logged in to the pc

htluo Tue, 06/09/2009 - 03:55

It's called "Cisco UP Config Agent".


this service doesn't get any matched file back. But the CUPC logs show following error:

ERROR LCMiddleware - (MWMSG_SERVICELIST_WAITTIMEDOUT) ServiceConditions::Wait(4) - TIMED OUT after 25000 ms

ERROR LCMiddleware - (MWMSG_CFGMGR_GETCFGFAILED) ConfigurationManager::Load() - failed to get config data


wiluszm Mon, 06/08/2009 - 18:59


Thanks to all the contributions you've already given the "presence community" with your great posts all the time! My company is currently in a very involved UC pilot with Avaya vs. Cisco. Cisco offers CUPC and Presence, terrific additions to the UC portfolio that Avaya is only rumored to be competing against coming up this fall (minus the whole MS MOC integration if you have the $$ to burn). I have to ask what implications does the Jabber acquisition have on the future of CUPC/Presence? We've run CUPC and it is a great tool, but seems to be lacking a lot of the great functionality in Jabber (conference chats, public federation, multi-client). Currently we're looking at using Jabber, but I'd love to see Presence able to federate to a Jabber server (like OpenFire) to share functionality.

I'm sure this is all far-reaching, but CUPC is definitely *so* close to being THE client we need. Are there any sweeping changes coming soon for us users to anticipate and bank on (group chats, federation, a more compatible client that CUMC... c'mon... no chat with CUMC!?)?

Thanks for everything so far Michael!


htluo Mon, 06/08/2009 - 20:05

I have to admit CUPC is far from a full-featured IM client.

The good news is: development said they were working aggressively to integrate Jabber with the new client.

CUPS 7.x supports "inter-domain federation". It should be able to federate with many SIP compatible products.


steven_chan Tue, 06/09/2009 - 00:35

Hi Michael,

I was trying to configure the SIP trunk destination address as DNS SRV. resolves to the 2 CUPS servers

So, I put under Destination Address of the SIP trunk under Subcluster SRV Address of the System Topology > Subcluster Detail

From the sniffer capture, I only see DNS query and reply for the DNS SRV when I reset the SIP trunk.

I would expect more DNS query/reply messages such as when the presence status changes. (May be there is cache for the DNS reply ....?)

Do I miss something in the configuration?

htluo Tue, 06/09/2009 - 03:52

Did you put A record or IP address for the SRV entry on DNS? Usually, SRV query would return A records. If A records were not in DNS cache, there would be A record query to get the IP address.


steven_chan Tue, 06/09/2009 - 18:59

Regarding the DNS SRV issue,

Yes, I added A records (IP address of the CUPS server) for the SRV entry.

From the SRND, it seems to me the SIP trunk is being used only when the presence entity (phone presence status) exists in another CUCM/CUPS cluster.

As I saw a DNS reply of the DNS SRV when I reset the SIP trunk, it seems the DNS SRV was configured properly.

So my question is, did I miss something in the configuration?

Do you expect to see more DNS SRV query/reply?


"A Unified CM watcher that sends a presence request will receive a direct response, including the presence status, if the watcher and presence entity are co-located within the Unified CM cluster.

If the presence entity exists outside the cluster, Unified CM will query the external presence entity through the SIP trunk."

mikeduffy13 Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:10

I thought I had my presence server (testing) figured out. I continually have problems when I try to add new users. I am getting one of two errors depending on user:

(MWMSG_CFGMGR_PARSEFAILED) TFTPConnectionImpl::connect() - Failed to download UPCUSER.cnf.xml


(MWMSG_EIM_SOAPLOGINFAILED) Failed to log in to SOAP server https://10.x.x.x/EPASSoap/service

Unsure of what is causing these issues, as the new users are configured the same as the working users. I have restarted all services, licensed and unlicensed users, doubled checked digest credentials were added and associated users with all lines... : (

htluo Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:14

For the TFTP issue, you may test it under Windows XP:

tftp -i get UPCUSER.cnf.xml

Where is the CUCM TFTP.

For SOAP errors, you may try to restart Sync Agent service on CUPS.


mikeduffy13 Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:18

Thanks. I will check the TFTP for that user.

For the SOAP issues, I have restarted the Synce Agent on CUPS multiple times.

htluo Wed, 06/10/2009 - 05:32

Since it timed out on a Windows command, the problem is not specific to CUPC. You'll have to find out why it timed out. (maybe network issue?)


mikeduffy13 Wed, 06/10/2009 - 05:36

Yes I'll look into that. Odd problem to have since he can connect to CUPS but not download config.

Any thoughts on the SOAP login error?


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