WAP4410N - How to have mutilple AP's use one

Unanswered Question
Sep 9th, 2009

Looking to setup 3-4 WAP4410N AP's but only want to use 1 SSID and one set of keys if possible.  Is this possible with these units and if so can anyone give me some direction/ help on configuring them properly??

Thanks in advance.

Mike

I have this problem too.
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jestowe Wed, 09/09/2009 - 18:06

Sir,

Setup one WAP as your primary Access Point with designated SSID.  Setup all other WAP's as repeaters using the same SSID, Channel, and Encryption.  Place the MAC address of the primary AP on the closest repeater and extend the wireless range via additional repeaters.  The computer attaching to a single SSID should roam without losing connection.


Thanks.

Mussolini Fri, 08/06/2010 - 16:14

Hi Jestowe,

I have configured my two APs as you said. But when I setup the primary AP to accept others, the performance goes down significantly. On my tests, my MacBook Pro takes a file around 5MB/s constant with the AP configured as a default access point, but when I check "Allow wireless signal to be repeated by a repeater." it takes around 2MB/s with significant instability.

So, enjoying this topic, I'd like to know if someone had the same issue...

Software Version:               2.0.2.1

Thanks in advance.

David Hornstein Fri, 08/06/2010 - 19:45

Hi Danilo,

You are absolutely correct to expect a drop in performance when you repeat a wireless signal..

Check out a slightly exaggerated diagram below  (one I could use to demonstrate the next point);

Logically, I had to  think about it,   there has got to be  a cost  and a benefit involved in relaying or repeating upstream and downstream from a repeating AP.

Wireless Repeater actually cuts the bandwidth by probably a little more half. (Since it has to Flip-Flop between Transmit, and Receive with a single Radio).   The benefit is obviously convenience  and cost of not having to run CAT5 or 6 cabling.

regards Dave

Mussolini Mon, 08/09/2010 - 07:56

Hey Dave, thanks for your quick reply.

I understood your explanation, and I am a little sad now! 

So, is there a way to make a wireless network with various access points and one SSID with high performance, I mean, taking all performance of a 802.11n technology ?  Maybe using some other cisco access point ?

Thank you!

morpheus3236 Tue, 11/09/2010 - 12:40

Why would you set them up as repeaters?  I normally have set these up with the same SSID, same passphrase, and only change the channels.  If I am not mistaken this is the benefits of ESS and should do what your trying to do without having to degrade as a repeater...

David Hornstein Tue, 11/09/2010 - 12:50

Hi morpheus (shades of forbidden planet)

I completely agree.  If i had to have three AP's in a office,  would configure them with the same SSID, same passphrase, and only change the channels to hopefully non overlapping frequencies.

With WAP4410,  unlike it's slightly more expensive big brother, the AP541,  it is not seamless movement between AP's, there is a little bit of time needed to associate with a new AP.

If seamless movement between AP's is what is needed then folks should try clustering the AP541  or using a traditional Cisco controller based solution using Light weight APs.

regards Dave

Mussolini Tue, 11/09/2010 - 15:34

Hi all,

I've never thought about use multiple APs with same SSID and pass with diferent channels. Maybe that's the solution for me, here in this case.

But, in case of seamless movement between APs, you advice me use AP541 for best performance?

Thanks.

David Hornstein Wed, 11/10/2010 - 11:26

Hi Danillo,

There almost seems to be a better-best scenario  for IP voice roaming between AP's, depending on the cost of the solution. :-)

WAP4410N  do not provide seamless roaming, there is a little break as wireless client disassociate and associate with a new AP if the wireless client are roaming.  The call will most likely get lost.

Better ---For better roaming between AP,  i would use AP541. Check out the attached deployment document which can also  be referenced at the following location.  This AP uses fast roaming protocol to allow for almost seamless roaming as mentioned in the AP500 datasheet. 

Note: you may even hear a click (lost packets) as the IP phone jumps between AP's, but the phone call should not be lost.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/voice_ip_comm/sbcs/deployment_guides/voice_over_wireless/sbcs_20_vowifi_deployment_guide.pdf

Best----For seamless roaming between AP's the best solution really is a Cisco traditional  Wireless LAN controller and light weight AP's.

These are designed for seamless roaming of IP phone and PC clients.

Checkthe URL below  for a question and answer section for Wireless LAN Controller, it's seems to answer your question on how you really can have seamless roaming..suffice to say that the traditional Cisco Mobility solution has been engineered for seamless roaming of IP voice clients.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps6366/products_qanda_item09186a00808b4c61.shtml

.

derrickmunro Mon, 10/29/2012 - 11:39

I am working in an environment where they hope to place two WAP4410Ns in an auditorium.  If using both of these as autonomous APs, should I expect any issues (disconnects)?

jonatrod Tue, 10/30/2012 - 08:54

Good morning.

Hi Mike Vidito, my name is Johnnatan and I am part of the Small business Support community.

Yes it is possible, check this steps in order to configure your AP's.

1. Connect all access points to a wired Ethernet network. They must be in a common network. In addition, each AP must have a different IP.

2. Use the same password for the AP (Remember to use WPA2,  if you use WPA try to use a complex password),

3. Use the same SSID for all the AP's.

4. Select channels that do not overlap for adjacent access points. Channels 1, 6 and 11 have no overlapping frequencies.

5. Enable DHCP service on only one of  the access points. Most DHCP servers can (optionally) to bridge the DHCP service between wired and wireless networks and provide access to wireless clients. There is no advantage if DHCP servers running on multiple access points, and have multiple DHCP servers can cause confusion. Using a single DHCP server enabled with NA T created a single private LAN.

6. Use a form of roaming (WDS or Universal Repeater).

Also you can use a network infraestructure like this one:

WAP # 1 connect to LAN with cable and setup as Master with WDS Bridge enabled. WDS interface is also enable with MAC address input from WAP #2; WAP #3

WAP #2 connect to WAP #1 via wireless with WDS Bridge enabled. WDS interface is also enable with MAC address input form WAP #1 (master)

WAP #3 connect to WAP #1 via wireless with WDS Bridge enabled. WDS interface is also enable with MAC address input form WAP #1 (master)

I hope you find this answer useful, if it was satisfactory  for you, please mark the question as Answered. Rate helpful posts

Greetings,

Johnnatan Rodriguez Miranda.

Cisco network support engineer.

Jonathan - your answer was very complete and I appreciate this information as it is helpful to my question as well. I am adding a WAP4410N to an existing wireless office network where the other existing wireless device is a WRVS4400N. These devices will be on separate floors but the signal is present but weak from the opposite floor. I do not think wireless repeating is advisable so I am looking at your first solution where both devices are on the wired network. They are both on the same subnet. Steps 1-5 are very clear but I am not clear on how to implement step 6 "Use a form of roaming (WDS or Universal Repeater).". Can you please elaborate with information specific to the WAP4410N and WRVS4400N? Thank you very much.

jonatrod Fri, 11/23/2012 - 07:38

Hi Thomas kuhn,

If you are going to use the wired way, you don´t have to configure your devices as repeaters, so you don´t have to configure the step 6, this is only for wireless connectivity, you d´better configure your network using the wired option, because using a router as a repeater has problems like interference and your repeater is going to loose the half of the bandwidth.

I hope you find this answer useful, if it was satisfactory  for you, please mark the question as Answered. Rate helpful posts

Greetings,

Johnnatan Rodriguez Miranda.

Cisco network support engineer.

mohammad.qurashi Mon, 04/22/2013 - 13:24

Dear Jonathan,

Can we apply the same approach for 10 Access Points, will it works as one SSID and what is your recommendation?

Eric Moyers Mon, 04/22/2013 - 14:30

Hi, My name is Eric Moyers. I am a Network Support Engineer in the Cisco Small Business Support Center. Thank you for using the Cisco Community Post Forums.

To a certain degree yes the same guidelines Jonathan pointed out would work for 10 APs. The main difference is that 1 AP can repeat to only 4 APs in repeater mode. So basically you would have 1  WAP4410N in AP mode and 4 WAP4410N in WDS Repeater or Wireless Client/Repeater mode and then another WAP4410N in AP mode and 4 in repeater mode off of it.

If you have not bought them yet I would suggest looking at the WAP121 or the WAP321 for this. Also the WAP321 can be put into clustering for ease of setup and maintenance.

Thanks

Eric Moyers    .:|:.:|:.

Cisco Small Business US STAC Advanced Support Engineer

CCNA, CCNA-Wireless

866-606-1866 ext 601027

Mon - Fri 09:00 - 18:00 (UTC - 05:00)

*Please rate the Post so other will know when an answer has been found.

mohammad.qurashi Mon, 04/22/2013 - 14:49

Hi Eric,

Thanks for your prompt reply, it is well clear and understood.

Actually i didn't bought them yet, i'm sizing for a certain client.

For WAP121 & WAP321 unfortunately isn't available.

What do you suggest regarding CT2504 Controller, can it manage up to 10 AP1041n easily with ease administration ?

Berrisj11 Fri, 07/10/2015 - 20:23

Trying to do exactly what has been asked in this forum already. Have a 4400 in the basement but the signal is weak on first floor. Put 4410n on second floor. It is wired to the 4400. The are the same ssid. They are same wpa2 password. I am just not sure the AP setting on the 44100. Access point with allowed repeating?  Should channels be same or different? I did set the 4400 to allow repeating.  thanks

Eric Moyers Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:44

If the WAP4410N is hardwired to the WRVS440N then I would not try to do any type of repeating. I would use as a regular access Point not as a repeater.

Here is why:

When you repeat or (Hop) your wireless performance drops by half. For example, If you have a 25 mbps wireless throughput that will then drop to 12.5 (roughly). That is just the nature of wireless. 

Here is what I do at my house:

I have one SSID called xxxxx-U for upstairs and one called xxxxx-D for downstairs. both on different channels, (Channel 1 and 6 I think) Different names so that when troubleshooting I know which one I am connecting to, different channels so that they do not interfere with each other. (Of course xxxxx is whatever you want it to be)

I would make sure that each SSID is saved in your wireless clients and configured to connect when in range. 

If there is a lot of overlay, you can look at reducing the transmit power so that the Downstairs unit is not seen very well upstairs and vice versa. This will ensure that the client when connected to the unit downstairs will drop the connection when traveling upstairs and connect to the Upstairs unit. 

Hope this helps.

Eric Moyers
.:|:.:|:. CISCO | Cisco Presales Technical Support | Wireless Subject Matter Expert

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