Certified CISCO Training Partners handing out pass4sure to students?

Unanswered Question
Reza Sharifi Fri, 01/08/2010 - 05:04

You should send an e-mail to Cisco to notify them of such a partner.


Reza

I'm not sure if supplying pass4sure dumps is explicitly dis-allowed by Cisco.  I can't find any information on the Cisco site to confirm nor deny the issue.  I understand from a professional stand point that they are not encouraged, passing the test versus understanding the concepts

etc.  But if it is not explicitly disallowed in writing by Cisco, I'd hate to be a weasle and whine to Cisco about it.  I study very hard and use a lot of lab time maintaining my Cisco Certs and am starting to lay my CCIE R&S Lab study plan down.  I just know of a few non-networking people who where directed at work to get Cisco certified and they read a book for 2 weeks, went to a couple of bootcamps, were given pass4sure test engines and got their certifications in 1/10th the time I got mine and see nothing wrong with the process...

marikakis Tue, 01/19/2010 - 18:09

My understanding is that cisco exams are intellectual property of cisco and distribution of them is not allowed (article 2 or 3 of certification exam agreement, depending on version of agreement, regarding confidentiality and intellectual property). The point that is not clear to me is what the candidates who use them can expect, but for those who distribute the tests and questions I think the issue is clear.


In my country cheating in many cycles is considered cool and smart since I can remember myself. I have heard MS and PhD students talking about cheating and having issues supervising students during exams because they believe that everyone has cheated at least once in their lives! It doesn't matter what cisco does to stop people from cheating. In the end what matters is what each exam candidate does. For me to cheat I would have to first admit to myself that I can't pass a test, and I will never admit that no matter what. Besides, I wouldn't feel any satisfaction with the result this way. You can call me proud or you can call me stupid or anything. I think of education as a long term 'investment' and not a short term result. Some could argue that a cheater will eventually be caught. Some people with job experience who are bored to study have some chances of not being caught. This possibility doesn't make any difference to me.


Anyway, you just can't force ethics on people. If they feel nothing wrong is being done, the discussion becomes a little problematic, since ethics heavily depend on an inherent separation of 'right' from 'wrong'. However, I must say there are many professionals out there who will get furious if they detect such a thing having been done from their peers. If separation of right from wrong becomes hard, only threats of punishment are left on the table.


Edit:


Confidentiality

All content, specifically questions, answers and diagrams of the certification exams are the proprietary and confidential property of Cisco. They may not be copied, reproduced, modified, published, uploaded, posted, transmitted, or distributed in anyway without the express authorization of Cisco.

Exam Violations

Disclosure of exam content and other acts of misconduct are strictly prohibited as described in the Cisco Career Certifications and Confidentiality Agreement. Please report any suspicious activity to [email protected].


4.1 Candidate Conduct Policy. Cisco has established rules to minimize whatever unfair advantage might be gained by candidate misconduct in the examination process. Confirmed allegations of misconduct may, at any time, result in application of the sanctions specified in Section 4.2. You agree to adhere to such rules and agree not to engage in any action to subvert, or attempt to subvert, the examination process (“misconduct”) including but not limited to: ...


Do we really have to go to law school to understand how we are supposed to behave?

johnnylingo Tue, 01/19/2010 - 22:33

Cisco sorta brought this problem on themselves by offering higher discounts to Partners that have more certified employees.   If you were a Cisco partner and wanted to get your employees certified as quickly and cheaply as possible, what would you do?   Hello?  Duh.


But I think the bigger problem is the shortage of realistic sample questions.   For something like CCIE the typical candidate is looking at months of studying, but no real clue as to what is going to be emphasized on the test or how it will be asked.   Having the exam before hand or memorizing the answers is cheating.   Looking at an exam where the questions are similar but not quite the same is not cheating at all. 


Which one is pass4sure?  I have no idea.

marikakis Wed, 01/20/2010 - 05:49

You are right that the issue is more complicated than the simple idealistic view of my previous post. It has many financial, practical and legal aspects. And those aspects make the tests themselves more like a business than education (and this holds for many tests, not only the certification exams). They say in love and war everything is allowed. I wonder why they forgot to add the 'business' word in this saying. I guess it is implicitly included in the 'war'.


As for the questions, I agree with you that it is useful for a candidate to have some clues about the level of difficulty of an exam. As I have said in the past, the acceptable way to see what's on an exam is to pay and sit for it at the testing center. The free retake offer that cisco had last year was probably a good idea for many reasons. I think many people would be glad if such an offer would appear again.


As for the CCIE, well, it is supposed to be unpredictable, and I think undermining this aspect of the exam makes it less of an honor. As usual however, a difficult exam causes people to cheat. Cheating on the other hand causes the exams to become more difficult to detect the cheaters, and a circle of love and hate between difficulty and cheating starts. Cheating causes exams to be more difficult for the candidate who honestly tries to take them. It also causes a waste of time for many people. I wish I didn't have to supervise students during an exam. It is the most boring thing I do. For the candidates it seems time is never enough. For the supervising person it seems like ages.

I'm sure Cisco (and Microsoft and other major vendors) are aware of the Pass4Sure like companies

I do not know if they get their data in a legit way butif all the big companies do nothing it is wither because they can't or do not want

can't? if only Microsoft & Cisco combined go after someone they would easily crack them assuming it was illegal

want? I have my suspicious that they are saliently approving it because more people take the exams and pay the fee.


http://ITDualism.wordpress.com

marikakis Wed, 01/20/2010 - 07:41

Well, and some music, game selling, etc companies are officially against piracy and behind the curtains are pushing illegal CDs/DVDs on the market. Since others are illegally selling their intellectual property, why can't they do the same and share at least the remaining joy?


In an ideal world where everybody plays by the rules, getting degrees, cerifications, etc cannot guarantee money, fame, etc to anyone. Because everybody is simply doing the same. The general tendency is for salaries to go down and not up due to this mass effect. Any financial gains are only for some short period of time. People should always be on the move. If the value of education doesn't look interesting to some people, there are other better ways to make money and not spend their lives taking tests. I'll get my best salary in the grave

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