Licensing Info Needed for ATA devices with CUCM

Answered Question
Jun 16th, 2010

Hi all,

We are planning to deploy CUCM solution for our client. With CUCM 7.1 & MCS7825, we want to use ATA devices either ATA186 or SPA2102 for providing telephony service through Analog phones.

Q1)     Regarding licensing, do I have to buy User License & Device license separately?

Q2)     Can we buy these licenses as per our requirement, i.e. 200 initially & later buy 400 more, i.e. total 600, as per our requirement? That's because I could only find user licenses for 100 or 1000 users!?

Q3)     Since there are two analog telephone ports in the ATA186 or SPA2102, then do I only need only 100 user &/or device license in the case of 200 users??

Tc.

Tekkie123

I have this problem too.
0 votes
Correct Answer by Jonathan Schulenberg about 3 years 10 months ago

Yes you can purchase LIC-CM-DL-10 as many times as you want. If you want to order quantity one of LIC-CM-DL-100 and quantity six of LIC-CM-DL-10 you will get 160 DLUs. In reality customers typically do not cut it this close. It is common, and suggested, to have a cushion. Personally, I would just order quantity two of LIC-CM-DL-100 for the first phase. You will end up using the rest eventually anyways.

One last time: Don't order the ATA186 devices. It's a poor choice of hardware.

Correct Answer by Jonathan Schulenberg about 3 years 10 months ago

Oops, I mistyped previously when I said 200. Aaron is correct; each port on the ATA consumes a DLU because you have to add each port as a separate device in UCM. So, even though you have two physical ports on the same device, they are added as two separate devices in UCM thus resulting in 100 DLUs if you use both ports on 50 ATAs.

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Jonathan Schulenberg Wed, 06/16/2010 - 04:10
We are planning to deploy CUCM solution for our client. With CUCM 7.1 
& MCS7825, we want to use ATA devices either ATA186 or SPA2102 for 
providing telephony service through Analog phones.

You should be choosing the VG2XX gateways (two, four, or 24 ports) if you want FXS ports. The VG186 is worthless reaches End of Sale this september.

Regarding licensing, do I have to buy User License & Device license separately?

I think you are getting the licensing programs confused. Prior to UCM 7.1(5) or 8.0(1) there user licensing was only in Cisco Unified Workspace Licensing (CUWL). If you buy a-la-carte you just need the DLUs. Note this changes in the versions I mentioned as we transition toward User Connect Licensing (again, unless you do CUWL). UCL is user-based and does have an analog port cost.

 Can we buy these licenses as per our requirement, i.e. 200 initially 
& later buy 400 more, i.e. total 600, as per our requirement? That's
 because I could only find user licenses for 100 or 1000 users!?

Yes. You can buy them in the increments you mentioned and add them together at any time. E.g. quantity four of the 100 DLU pack gives you 400 DLUs total. Again, be careful when using terms "user" vs. "device"; they imply different licensing programs.

 Since there are two analog telephone ports in the ATA186 or SPA2102, 
then do I only need only 100 user &/or device license in the case of
 200 users??

No; the ATA186 is added to UCM twice (two separate MAC addresses) if you intend to use both ports.

PS-The SPA2102 is not a supported device by UCM. If it uses SIP you may be able to make it work as a Third-Party SIP Device.

saif_farooq Wed, 06/16/2010 - 06:06

Hi,

Thank for the early reply. Few one more things related to the previous question:

  • I want 100 analog telephones in my network, & if Im using ATA186(2 Analog Port Device), Then I need license as follows:

  1. SIP License for each devise, which will serve both analog telephone ports i.e. 50
  2. For CM Seat License, I only need to buy LIC-CM-DL-100. It means its simple 1 License Seat= 1Analog Telephone Set.

Kindly check if u can tell me exactly how many DLUs or seat license is neded for an ATA186(each with two analog telephone sets), or if u can send me some URL link where I can find the DLU allocation for devices like ATA & IP phone models.

Thx & Regards.

Jonathan Schulenberg Wed, 06/16/2010 - 09:05

If you are really going to use an ATA, you should be using SCCP, not SIP on them. The only license related to this will be the DLUs. If you have 100 analog phones spread across 50 ATA186 devices you will need 100 DLUs since each of the two ports on the ATA consumes a DLU.

Message was edited by: Jonathan Schulenberg to correct DLU consumption statement.

saif_farooq Wed, 06/16/2010 - 22:00

Hi,

Now im only left with a one simple but imp question, since its a matter of licensing & cost.

Like u said in the last post "each of the two ports on the ATA consumes a DLU".

Then for 1 ATA186=2 license required (for two analog phones)

Similarly, 50 ATA186= 100 Device license required (for 100 analog phones)

If above statement is true, then why you have suggested that "200 DLUs" required instead of 100.

Also I found the link below with DLU Matrix for various devices, which also says:

DLUs for Cisco ATA 186 Analog Telephone Adapter= 2 (No. of Units)

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/voicesw/ps6788/vcallcon/ps556/ps6164/prod_qas0900aecd805009fc_ps556_Products_Q_and_A_Item.html

Hope u understand my confusion, as it sounds simple but u knw how these costs effect whole project.

Thx again

Aaron Harrison Wed, 06/16/2010 - 23:00

Hi

Just checked on my Lab system, and one DLU is consumed for each 'ata' you add to the system.

So you add two ATAs (one per port) and this uses two DLUs.

Regards

Aaron

Please rate helpful posts...

saif_farooq Wed, 06/16/2010 - 23:18

Thanks for the reply Aron,

I am still little bit confused. What u saying is also available on following link, which says 1 DLU per ATA 186 device. Please note that I will be using two analog telephones on each ATA186.

CallManager Unit license for each ATA (1 per  device required)

http://cisco.biz/en/US/prod/collateral/voicesw/ps6788/phones/ps514/ps515/product_data_sheet09186a008007cd72.html

But in another link on Cisco webiste its said:

2 Number of Units required for Cisco ATA 186 Analog Telephone Adapter

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/voicesw/ps6788/vcallcon/ps556/ps6164/prod_qas0900aecd805009fc_ps556_Products_Q_and_A_Item.html

Hope u understand the reason for my confusion as required DLU is 1 in above link & 2 in he link below.

Kindly check above info & let me knw how many DLUs do I have to buy for:

100 Analog Telephones for which 50 ATA186 devices should be placed.

Thx in advance!!

Correct Answer
Jonathan Schulenberg Thu, 06/17/2010 - 03:36

Oops, I mistyped previously when I said 200. Aaron is correct; each port on the ATA consumes a DLU because you have to add each port as a separate device in UCM. So, even though you have two physical ports on the same device, they are added as two separate devices in UCM thus resulting in 100 DLUs if you use both ports on 50 ATAs.

saif_farooq Thu, 06/17/2010 - 04:54

Thx a lot to both u Jonathan & aaron. Although it was simple thing but u know how these licenses add up to the overall cost.

Thx guyz

saif_farooq Thu, 06/17/2010 - 05:10

Hi,

New Related Question:

I opened the other thread in order to simplify things:) Anyways, I am working on the VoIP solution  with CM 7.x with 78xx appliance. I need some info regarding the  licensing. In the first phase of this solution we have 160 telephones  & in the second phase will go upto 600 telephones. Kindly see if the  license purchase plan listed below is correct:

  • License Unified CM 7.x 78xx  1000 seats (Which in any case one has to buy)
  • First  Phase:    LIC-CM-DL-100 (Qty=1), LIC-CM-DL-10 (Qty=6)
  • Secod Phase: LIC-CM-DM-500  (Qty=1)

Q)I mean to ask, can I buy Licenses e.g LIC-CM-DL-10 6 times for the same MCS/CM server, in order to buy exact number or is there any restriction on the number of LIC-CM-DL- we can buy for one CM??

I  want to go for above breakup purchase plan because I dont want to  purchase 1000 DLU license because of increased cost.

We will have  ATA186 devices in this network, with each ATA186 needing 2 DLUs which  will serve 2 Analog Telephones.

Hope u can understand above & guide.

Thx

Correct Answer
Jonathan Schulenberg Thu, 06/17/2010 - 05:17

Yes you can purchase LIC-CM-DL-10 as many times as you want. If you want to order quantity one of LIC-CM-DL-100 and quantity six of LIC-CM-DL-10 you will get 160 DLUs. In reality customers typically do not cut it this close. It is common, and suggested, to have a cushion. Personally, I would just order quantity two of LIC-CM-DL-100 for the first phase. You will end up using the rest eventually anyways.

One last time: Don't order the ATA186 devices. It's a poor choice of hardware.

saif_farooq Thu, 06/17/2010 - 06:09

Thanks for the licensing info!!!

Talking of ATA186, Its EOL has been announced this year & It's replecement will ne ATA187, as on Cisco website.

So the question is what do I replace it with for the analog telephony purpose.

As u hav advised goin for VG2xx, i.e VG202,204 or 224, but the problem is, I could not find any doc saying whether its gonna work with Cisco CM. Also I the DLU matrix I found on Cisco website, doesn't mention VG2xx. You can also check the DLU matrix at link below:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/voicesw/ps6788/vcallcon/ps556/ps6164/prod_qas0900aecd805009fc_ps556_Products_Q_and_A_Item.html

Otherwise you suggest some replacement of ATA186 with some documentation, so I can understand the difference better.

Thanks in advance:)

saif_farooq Thu, 06/17/2010 - 23:01

Hi,

I have checked & ur rite tht no DLUs required for VG2xx. So if I go for VG202 or 204, I don't need to buy a)DLUs & b)SIP license. This way the design gets simple & I only have to install the VG gateways & run the analog phones, which is my objective.

Now the main problem is the cost. On average an ATA186 with DLU & SIP licenses may still cost cheaper (per port) than the VG2xx?!

Otherwise, can I use a third party Voice Gateway e.g Quintum?

Also, (a rather simple question) do I still have to the buy UCM 100 or 1000 seat license (as per req), even if im not using any IP phones in the network & only Anlaog phones using Gateways?

thx

Jonathan Schulenberg Fri, 06/18/2010 - 05:00
Now the main problem is the cost. On average an ATA186 with DLU & 
SIP licenses may still cost cheaper (per port) than the VG2xx?!

I think the phrase 'you get what you pay for' applies here.

Otherwise, can I use a third party Voice Gateway e.g Quintum?

I have no idea as I have never worked with them. Presumably if they provide RFC-compliant SIP or ITU-compliant H.323 UCM can work with it. At that point (third-party analog gateway) you might as well not even use Cisco UCM because it isn't getting you anything IMO. Any H.323 router or SIP Proxy would be capable of routing calls.

Also, (a rather simple question) do I still have to the buy UCM 100 or 
1000 seat license (as per req), even if im not using any IP phones in 
the network & only Anlaog phones using Gateways?

I have said this twice already in this thread: be careful when using the word 'seat'.  You are not buying end user seat licenses with DLUs. DLUs are device licenses. DLUs are being depracated in favor of User Connect Licensing (UCL) starting in 7.1(5) and 8.0(1).  UCL is based on a user seat licenses just as Unified Workspace Licensing (CUWL) is.  This entire thread has been DLU-based which means 1) You will be using version 7.1(3) or older; and, 2) if you do not buy devices that require DLUs then you do not need to buy DLUs.

saif_farooq Sun, 06/20/2010 - 22:04

Hi!!

Thx for all the previous replies,,they were very helpful.One last point. For this solution,,we have to terminate E1 PRI on the router, which will serve for the IP telephony network. There are two options, i.e. VWIC-1MFT-E1 & VWIC-1MFT-G703. I want to ask if I can get the work done through E1 module instead of G.703 card?

thx

robray_sc Wed, 07/21/2010 - 10:51

Can anyone confirm if using the VG224 in a UCM 8.0 deployment will require a UCL for each analog phone connected via the vg224?  I know in the past no DLUs were required when using a VG224....just unsure with these UCL licenses.

James Hawkins Thu, 07/22/2010 - 08:43

My understanding is that with UCL you need to buy a $40 license (ANLG-DEV-ADD Analog/App Only Device Add-on) for each analogue device you connect regardless of whether it is connected to an ATA, a VG2xx or to an FXS module in an ISR.

For the original posters requirements (600 analogue phones) the licenses below would be required (have assumed 2 x 7825 CUCM servers)

I would ask the Cisco UCL Product Management team to confirm this but I am still waiting for a response from them on a question re. licensing for EM users that was raised two months ago!

sumesh.nair Tue, 01/18/2011 - 23:42

Hi

Do we have any confirmation on whether analog phones connected to a VG224 would need licenses when the licensing structure is UCL?

Rgds

Sumesh

mishaaltk Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:34

When the VG224 is confirgured as an MGCP gateway, the phones connected to it do not require licenses (DLUs)

But when its configured as SCCP, the end-points require 1 DLU per analog device, just like an ATA187

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