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Cisco Fax Server / CCM 4.1 -> 4.2 Environment

Unanswered Question
Jan 25th, 2007
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Hi.


Currently we have a CallManager cluster environment running 4.1 soon to be upgrades to 4.2 providing services to a central site as well as remote sites (i.e. approx 20 sites).


We are looking for a Fax Solution and we are considering the Cisco Fax Server solution with RightFax. Right now all the PSTN gateways are using MGCP to talk to Callmanager and most of them are using T1/PRI while others are using FXO lines. Right now faxes are standalone and are not part of the VoIP/IPT network.


Can I use a Cisco Fax Server solution at the central site and provide fax services to remote sites (i.e. having the incoming fax call at a remote site and terminate the call at the fax server in central site and then be deliver at user recipient)?? And do I need to change my gateways from MGCP to H323 in order to use T.38 for the Fax Server? or can I still be running MGCP on my gateways.


I would like the Fax Server to terminate fax calls using only the ethernet port (i.e SIP/RTP) included in the Brooktrout cards and not use TDM at all.


Any ideas? Is it possible?

Thanks in advanced,

-J

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Overall Rating: 3 (1 ratings)
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vmoopeung Wed, 01/31/2007 - 14:08
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A Cisco router is used to terminate PSTN calls and forward them to the fax server. The PSTN interface (ISDN PRI, ISDN BRI, or POTS) must be under IOS call control. The PSTN interface must not be controlled directly by CallManager using MGCP. If it is necessary to route calls to CallManager and the fax server, the CallManager connection must use H.323 signaling.


Suitable routers include, Cisco 1760, 1800, 2600, 2800, 3600, 3700, and 3800. The CCM module for the 6500 Chassis can also be used. The AS5xxx access server range should not be deployed with the Cisco Fax Server.

The Fax server can route faxes using Calling Line ID (CLI). This is the recommended routing method. The CLI can be used to match a fax destination on the fax server. This destination could be a Cisco Unity? mailbox, an SMTP mailbox, a network printer, or another multifunction device such as a supported document copier. The CLI will be matched to an SIP IP dial-peer on the router, and a connection is made to the Fax Server using T.38.


Try:

http://www.cisco.com/application/pdf/en/us/guest/products/ps6178/c1097/ccmigration_09186a0080565b56.pdf

chrisavants Thu, 03/08/2007 - 23:33
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Your in luck, I do this all day! Yes it's possible, however there are restrictions with t38 passthrough and MGCP ive ran into. Unfortunatly there is no support from Captaris on this and little from Cisco. T.38 is the way to go. You can port calls from any location to the RF server and yes have the RF server route to whichever source you choose on a user by user basis. i.e. Folders, Printers, E-Mail, Exchange, etc. If you decide to go this way, and need some help with the configs or cards to purchase I would be happy to help out. Ive done about 20 of these now and am very fimilar with the tips and tricks, so be sure to rate me well!

jmujica Fri, 03/09/2007 - 07:18
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Good to see that it is working for you. Now we are evaluating the fax solution for xmedius and is working great. Gateways are in MGCP mode and now that CCM 4.2 support T.38 on MGCP gateways everything is more simple.


I'll let you know how it goes.



mbell Mon, 12/17/2007 - 18:02
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Jose, would you happen to have a router config and some screen shots from CM for your working configuration? I've been trying to get Xmedius working with my CM 4.2(3) system and MGCP gateway (12.4(13b)) router with no luck so far. Thanks!

chrisavants Wed, 01/23/2008 - 08:46
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Unfortunately we are not an xmedius partner, but I have heard good things about it! Let me know how it goes!



jcompiano Wed, 01/23/2008 - 09:35
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Sagar-Interstar (xmedius) is easily deployed, works well and priced right.

jrhofman Tue, 04/03/2007 - 13:50
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I happen to read your post on getting T38 to work with CM 4.2 and MGCP gateways. We have a customer that is interested in this as well. All gateways are currenly MGCP and we would like to leave them like that. This would be a RF installation as well.


Can you provide an example router config and any insights as to what to watch out for, CM parameters needed, etc.


Thanks in advance.....

jcompiano Wed, 01/23/2008 - 08:02
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Hi Chris,

I have a CM 6.1 with a SIP provider for PSTN access, do you know if Rightfax will support taking the faxes on the sip trunk and using a H.323 gateway pointing to the fax server? Rightfax version is 9.1 and they are converting it to use T.38. Will they need to disconnect the T1 in place now while we are testing.


chrisavants Wed, 01/23/2008 - 08:40
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I have not worked with CM 6.1 yet. I would disconnect the T1 for testing. Im also not sure about the SIP gateway? Have not done that either but I have had allot of interest in it. Who are you using and how is it working?


As far as what you are asking, I would think Call Manager could handle this. Also there are SIP options for the Brooktrout cards as well! I have not touched that yet, but if you do definitely let me know!

Jason Aarons Tue, 04/03/2007 - 17:43
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I understood the Cisco Fax requires a hardware card for T38 whereas XMedius is software based making it a lower cost of ownership.


I've integrated XMedius with AD/Exchange, it works great with H323. I understand CallManager 4.2 now supports T38 with MGCP.

jmujica Mon, 10/29/2007 - 20:32
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Yes.. You need CallManager at version 4.2 minimun in order to have MGCP T.38 capabilities. I have it working at couple of customers without any problem using XMedius as the FoIP App.


-Jose



chrisavants Tue, 10/30/2007 - 09:16
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Yes, you have to have CM 4.2 or higher to work with MGCP. If you search MGCP & T.38 there are some vague instructions for this. I would place RightFax at the central site. You can get a calculator from Captaris.com which will show you the number of channels or boards you will need based on Page count. (Not easy to estimate page count for 20 sites I would imagine.) You could then either deploy the client to users at the sites (unlimited clients)if there is avalible bandwidth (there is a calculator for that too! Or use Exchange or SMTP for distribution. If you need more assistance with this let me know!


Thanks


Chris


[email protected]

bobut Mon, 05/12/2008 - 07:14
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I am in the same situation here. Can somebody help ?

Hello @All,


I have seen all kind of conversations about Cisco Fax Server (AKA Captaris RightFax) I have been working with Cisco now for 5 years to develop the technology part of Cisco Faxserver to work with Cisco topology.


I am not sure if this question is been answered yet but if not please let me know.


I notice a few things about CFS that are not thru I can be very clear in this CFS is supporting MGCP, SIP and H323 GW's CFS is supporting CUCM 4.x 5.x and 6.x and we are now testing CUCM 7.X


based on the CUCM version certain topology are not possible for instance when the GW are under MGCP control and CUCM version is 5 then no T.38 support is build in the CUCM 5.x version.


CFS can support both hardware with either E1/T1 or FOIP (T.37 /T.38) OR fully software based (T.37/T.38) based on H.323 or SIP.

These solutions can be located somewhere else from CFS server itselfs think about jitter issues etc. then it is an option to put a remote "boardserver" connected to the local GW or perhaps a different PBX to send the faxes via the data network to CFS which can be located somewhere else in the network.


Sagem is a competor of Cisco Fax Server I know it works well and same as for CFS. the example for why people would like to have CFS is that it is supported by Cisco TAC. and yes you are right the support could be better that is why I am also working with Cisco PDI helpdesk to get the knowlegde accros Cisco (and Captaris)


So please let me know if you have any questions because CFS can do much more then you think if you would like to spend some time with me via webex or whatever please let me know I am happy to assist.


If you have any additional questions feel free to contact me.



Regards,


Marco

Googi1974 Tue, 07/08/2008 - 15:50
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Hi Marco,

Perhaps you can help. We are trying to implement the fax server. We use CUCM 4.2 and RightFax 9.3. We can receive incoming faxes but we are not successfully able to fax outbound. I am new to VOIP & have limited knowledge. The outbound faxing results in dial tone after dialing error or dead line after dialing messages. We are having a difficult time finding someone who can tell us what we are doing wrong. Many thanks for any help you can provide.


Kelly Arroyo


miguelrm Tue, 07/07/2009 - 06:41
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Marco,


I have the same issue. We have FS 9.3 with SR140 and we can send and Recieve fax via MGCP gateway using a PRI but we can not fax out when we use the FXO port on the gateway. I can hear the Fax tone and when I do a debug MGCP packets when get the following messages:


*Jul 7 00:35:07.525: MGCP Packet received from 10.193.246.11:2427--->

CRCX 1688148 AALN/S0/SU1/[email protected] MGCP 0.1

C: A0000000022804bf000000F5

X: 0

L: p:20, a:PCMU, s:off, t:b8, fxr/fx:t38

M: recvonly

R: H/oc, H/of, L/hd

S: H/sup(addr(9,0,5,7,8,7,3,5,9,9))

Q: process,loop

<---


*Jul 7 00:35:10.529: MGCP Packet received from 10.193.246.11:2427--->

CRCX 1688148 AALN/S0/SU1/[email protected] MGCP 0.1

C: A0000000022804bf000000F5

X: 0

L: p:20, a:PCMU, s:off, t:b8, fxr/fx:t38

M: recvonly

R: H/oc, H/of, L/hd

S: H/sup(addr(9,0,5,7,8,7,3,5,9,9))

Q: process,loop

<---


*Jul 7 00:35:10.881: MGCP Packet sent to 10.193.246.11:2427--->

200 1688148 OK

I: F4F5


v=0

c=IN IP4 10.193.246.15

m=audio 17048 RTP/AVP 0 100

a=rtpmap:100 X-NSE/8000

a=fmtp:100 192-194,200-202

a=X-sqn:0

a=X-cap: 1 audio RTP/AVP 100

a=X-cpar: a=rtpmap:100 X-NSE/8000

a=X-cpar: a=fmtp:100 192-194,200-202

a=X-cap: 2 image udptl t38

<---


*Jul 7 00:35:10.881: MGCP Packet sent to 10.193.246.11:2427--->

NTFY 35179229 aaln/S0/SU1/[email protected] MGCP 0.1

N: [email protected]:2427

X: 0

O: L/hd

<---



*Jul 7 00:35:10.909: MGCP Packet received from 10.193.246.11:2427--->

MDCX 1688149 AALN/S0/SU1/[email protected] MGCP 0.1

C: A0000000022804bf000000F5

I: F4F5

X: 0

L: p:20, a:PCMU, s:off, t:b8, fxr/fx:t38

M: sendrecv

R: L/hu, D/[0-9ABCD*#], FXR/t38

S:

Q: process,loop


v=0

o=- 62709 0 IN EPN AALN/S0/SU1/[email protected]

s=Cisco SDP 0

t=0 0

m=audio 56092 RTP/AVP 0

c=IN IP4 10.193.80.28

a=X-sqn:0

a=X-cap:1 image udptl t38

<---


*Jul 7 00:35:51.897: MGCP Packet received from 10.193.246.11:2427--->

MDCX 1688150 AALN/S0/SU1/[email protected] MGCP 0.1

C: A0000000022804bf000000F5

I: F4F5

X: 0

M: recvonly

R: L/hu, D/[0-9ABCD*#]

S:

Q: process,loop

<---


*Jul 7 00:35:51.901: MGCP Packet sent to 10.193.246.11:2427--->

200 1688150 OK

<---


*Jul 7 00:35:51.901: MGCP Packet received from 10.193.246.11:2427--->

DLCX 1688151 AALN/S0/SU1/[email protected] MGCP 0.1

C: A0000000022804bf000000F5

I: F4F5

X: 0

S:

<---


FX-package is enabled and t.38. Again the problem is faxing out on the FXO port.



Thanks


Yes it is possible but you need to enable Cisco T.38 Fax passthrough on the GW's and use either a SIP trunk or H.323 GW to point to the CFS server that's it. If you need the config please let me know.


be aware that if you have ata or something running on the same GW it wont work when you enable t.38 fax passthrough.


Regards,


Marco

Googi1974 Wed, 07/23/2008 - 21:20
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I am grateful for your response. Is it possible if we are using the sr140 boardless solution? We are getting much conflicting information. Dialogics is telling us to use an ICT- inter cluster trunk in CCM. But much of what I am reading is saying to use H.323 GW. Yet cisco won't confirm either way. The curious thing is that using the ICT, we can receive INcoming faxes, but we cannot successfully fax outbound. When we attempted to configure the H323 GW in CCM, we could not receive inbound at all. Also, the H323 gateway did not show as registered in CCM. Very confusing.


Thanks,

Kelly

jleon22 Thu, 07/24/2008 - 13:04
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Hi Marco,


We are still stuck on CM 4.1 and need to integrate RF 9.3 into the CM cluster. What options do we have since we are not on a higher CM version?


All of our GW's are MGCP. We are also using ATA's at our location.


Thanks in advance.

chrisavants Wed, 08/20/2008 - 08:05
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You don't have many.. The standard configuration only works with 4.2.3 and above. Otherwise, look into getting a fractional T1 for Fax Server use. Allot more expensive in the long run...


I install a Cisco Fax Server almost weekly, know the configs, setup inside and out. Like most things, It's not difficult but you have to have the right components.


Let me know if I can be of assistance...

jleon22 Wed, 08/20/2008 - 08:54
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Hi Chris,


Since we have to maintain our current fax DID's, we're thinking of getting a temporary new T1 for RF with new DID's and doing a hard forward from our PBX to the new RF T1's. Have you run into any issues with forwarding or this idea?


We do have plans to upgrade to CM 6.1, but it will take several months.


Thanks for your help and experience on this.


chrisavants Wed, 08/20/2008 - 09:07
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That is a straightforward config! Just make sure you buy a card that supports T1 and FOIP so you can change in the future! I recommend the Brooktrout TR1034 T1 1N cards. They come from a single channel to a full T1, support H323 and SIP!


You know another option would be having an avalible T1 card on your MGCP Router! That would save you the monthly costs of a new T1, and you could always add a block of 100 DID's for about 10/month? Just a thought!


Chris


jleon22 Wed, 08/20/2008 - 09:18
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Yeah, we do have available T1 ports on our mgcp router. The tricky thing is, we did not purchase enough licenses for a full T1, so we are only using partial set of channels as they are spread out across multiple board servers. And yes, we do have Brooktrout 1024 cards.


I believe in mgcp you cannot specify the channels to be used.

chrisavants Wed, 08/20/2008 - 09:21
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You would be correct! Well good luck and let me know if you need anything!


~ Chris


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