NetPro Etiquette

[James Hawkins]

Hi,

What is the general feeling about rating responses to threads to which you have not contributed?

Whilst browsing NetPro I often see some great responses with no rating. Is is acceptable for me to rate them to show their value or should this only be done by thread contributors?

(I would also be a fan of a -2 to +5 rating system as has been discussed on here previously).

[Leo Laohoo]

paul.matthews wrote:
"Why are you asking so many questions? I just want an answer"

Ouch!  If I get a question like that I'd respond in the tune of, "I apologize.  I am a network guy because I failed in my quest in mental telepathy."

[marikakis]

Hi Leo,

Some authors, especially senior engineers, follow an on the job tactic to not rate responses from their paid consultants and doubt everything at every step of the way. Imagine the doubts those people might have about not paid consultants that offer answers without any immediate responsibility to be correct (BTW: I think one of the powers of the forum is exactly this, i.e. that answers can come faster if member doesn't feel too reluctant to provide an answer, has some drawbacks too, but it generally works due to the many members in the forum reviewing posts). I remember more experienced engineers at work wouldn't let me rate a consultant after our issue was (somewhat) resolved. I guess they got used to doing that and they just can't stop doing it everywhere. As a thread author, I find it say 'not smart' to not rate members. I mean, when it's obvious you generously rate responses, even when not exactly what you expected, everybody will step in to offer a helping hand. I would add this to the tips for getting faster/better responses It's free for heavens sake and it works!

If author has an issue and you respond with a solution, everything might go fine. BUT, if you say 'no, that's not possible', you should expect doubt. Remember the thread about measuring power? If the answer was 'yes', author would be happy from the beginning. Since the answer was 'no', more members had to step in to support the 'no' answer. Generally, if member says something like 'man, your network has cancer', an 'I want a second opinion' response from the author should be expected. The only workaround I have found for this is to demonstrate with a lengthy post that you are really interested in resolving the issue and eliminate doubts about being ignorant or just bored to provide a better answer. The older I get, the more I believe support is more about tactics than knowledge.

I remember a couple of discussions where what I am basically doing is trying to convince the author the answers already provided from cisco engineers are good. Usually it is the other way round (i.e. author doubts member until cisco engineer steps in, in such cases I might directly ask for help from cisco engineers that happened to step into the thread), but everything is possible in this forum. We talk about ratings and authors, but I think we should also focus on our own community tactics to get issues resolved. It doesn't matter who gets the rating in the end, as long as issue is resolved. I think collaboration instead of competition will take our community to the next level. Of course, it is not always possible for members to review discussions and support someone who has provided good answers. Still, this kind of 'unfairness' happens to everyone.

BTW: I think the most interesting situation is when an author who has earned a badge in the forum doesn't respond or doesn't rate helpful responses. Now, how can you expect things to be better with people who might not be aware of how things here work?

Kind Regards,
Maria

[burleyman]

I joined this forum some years ago and have found the people and advice I get here to be unmatched anywhere. I applaud everyone for their effort and time. I have only recently felt comfortable, as I continue to learn, to start posting answers to some questions and I have to tell you when I got my first 5 rating and that I actually solved the persons question I felt great. Now I have earned my first star and look forward to continuing upward, who knows may catch Rob....yeah right.... . As far as the ratings go, when I first started and until recently I rated everywhere from 1 to 5, but I got a little flack once when I gave someone a 3 rating and they thought I was dinging them when in my mind I was saying, "it did not solve my issue but the info was helpful so I will at least rate the post and thank them" so I put a 3. After he responded asking why the low rating I tried to explain and then I realized that it hurt his overall rating average so I was more careful after that and rate a little differently. I have also started rating posts that I have come across when I search for some solutions to issues I am having, but I don't post who gave them the rating, should I? Again, Thank you to everyone and I look forward to beating some of you Pro's to the solutions.

Thanks,

Mike "Burleyman" Burley

[marikakis]

I don't remember what the first ratings I got were about. Sure it feels good, but as with all tools, there are pros and cons. When the new site was launched and people were talking about missing points, I honestly didn't remember how many points I had before the migration. I guess that was good news for Dan: one less member complaining about missing points. I must admit I do have a weakness. I like it when an author responds to me with some variation of 'you are the man' more than I like a rating. I'm thinking, in a jokeful manner always, 'at least you got that one right'! I like this so much, next time I get a chance I will ask for the description of 'extremely helpful' associated with a 5 rating to change to 'you are the man'! Hope you guys will support me on this one. I guess there is no point in trying to reduce the competition among the guys. You must have it somewhere in your blood. In any case, keep up the good work.

[Kevin Dorrell]

Thank you Maria for bringing a smile to a Friday afternoon!

The business about 1-5 or 3-5 is a tricky one.  One man's '3' is another man's '1'.  It seems to me that if you regard a rating of '3' as 'low', then we have a severe case of ratings inflation.  '3' is bang in the middle of the ratings, so average.  Is the posting about average for the forum?  It's like noticing that about half the people are below average height, and so launching a campaign to get children to eat better to remedy the situation.

(Oooops ... am I talking down my own ratings here?)

It's a bit like the GCSE exams in the UK.  Grades used to be from A to F.  Then so many people were getting 'A's that they had to introduce A*.  Now I hear they are about to introduce A** and A***.  The whole thing begins to look so arbitrary.

At the end of the day, it's a game, and it makes us feel appreciated.

BTW, I seem to have lost all the ratings I got way back when.  Somehow I have managed to get two accounts, both with the same name.  I hope Dan can sort it out.  Otherwise I'll just have to start all over again.

Have a nice weekend everybody!

Kevin Dorrell

Luxembourg

[Wilson Samuel]

Kevin Nice point... however so surprised to see about your Points (I presume you are the same Kevin Dorrell whom I have had few NetPros way back in 2009 and 2008)

I guess, the present rating is relatively ok, however the crux is the spirit to get engaged and be engaged in the process of providing solutions and keeping one upto the point.

Personally speaking, I have not cared tooo much about the points, the only thing I really care about is the learning which I get from reading all the posts and the wonderful answers I get here.

Sam Wilson

[Rob Huffman]

Hey Folks,

Hope you don't mind me jumping back in for a moment here

Ratings..................always an interesting topic, for sure. I guess they

play an integral part in an open forum setting like this. It's really Human nature

to want to be liked or appreciated. But, sadly, not all people feel the same way

which is good as well I guess or we'd all be clones. If we stick with the general

principal/creed that we are here to help, then the good always outweighs the bad!

We know that the feeling we get from the simple two words "Thank You" is really

unmatched, so we we all work towards achieving this feeling. Sometimes,

you may answer many questions without so much as a peep coming back

your way. Then on other days you may get two 'you are the man' responses

(just for my friend Maria ) that completely make your day. All in the world of

NetPro is good again. You may also work up an awesome answer

(in your own mind) and never hear anything ......and you're

wondering again "is this really worth it??"  For me, one "Thank You"

or 'you are the man' is worth a world of no responses.

Leo...thanks for being the Crazy Aussie that you are! NetPro wouldn't be the same without you.

Paul...thanks for your insight here! Keep on with this type of thinking, we need lots of good humor!

Burleyman ...I'm glad you are feeling more comfortable with posting here!

Thanks for bringing some great new ideas onboard.

(You'll catch and pass me I have no doubt!)

Kevin...it's always great to see and hear your words! I have missed them for sure.

Always a +5 for you!

Sam... Thanks for confirming what we all know! "It's not about the points" Cheers to you!

Maria...as always, the finest of posts! Your thoughts always crystallize

what I'm thinking. Here's a special 'you are the man' instead of a more

traditional 5 that you deserve.

Cheers to all!

Huff

[Jon Marshall]

Rob

You may also work up an awesome answer

(in your own mind) and never hear anything ......and you're

wondering again "is this really worth it??"

You can say that again. In my own mind all my answers are awesome Seriously though have you ever gone back and read some of your old posts. I came across one a while back and thought what the hell was i thinking, makes me wonder whether i should be giving anyone advice !! I was so embarrassed i had to go back to the books to make sure i didn't do that again.

I have to be honest and admit there are certain frequent posters whose questions most of the time i do not get involved with. As Leo says, some people seem to think we are obliged to answer and often all we are doing is providing a link to a doc they could quite easily have found with a search on CCO. I don't think there's a lot we can do about it, some people will always want to be literally spoonfed. As Maria points out, it's free for crying out loud !!

Good to know i'm not the only frequent poster who sometimes thinks is it really worth doing this. And then as you say someone says thank you and you can feel their relief and it all makes it worthwhile

Edit - I came across one a while back and thought what the hell was i thinking - just in case anyone was thinking i am a foul mouthed brit the 4 letter word **** out was simply ellh (move the h to the front).

Dan this is the most sensitive swear word checker i have ever come across

Jon

[burleyman]

Everyone makes a very good point about people seeming to demand answersrs. I will admit I have sometimes, not realizing it, sounded short a demanding in some of my earlier posts but it was never intended that way. It was more of a crisis happening and looking for the path to travel. I to have also sometimes posted to get a quick answer before I searched but I have always searched at some point right after. I have used this forum as a learning tool and I have to say you guys are great teachers.

I do have one thing to say to everyone on this post....... Thank you!! Without people like you this forum would be nowhere what it is today.

Mike

[Rob Huffman]

Hey Jon,

Too true my friend

I have thrown up some real doozies (is that a real word?) and sometimes I stumble

upon them and laugh and sometimes cry. But this,of course, speaks to the

true essence of what these forums are all about "the freedom to try to help
someone". At the time I'm sure we thought that this was some stellar

advice we were offering up. And now we realize ...."not so much".

That's the beauty of it all, keep on postin' Jon and I will try as well

and I'm sure we'll hit some **"Home Runs" and have some "Strike-Outs"

along the way.

Cheers!

Huff

**Special added Baseball analogy just for Maria

[Leo Laohoo]

I remembered my first post in 2009.  I was reading a documentation and on the bottom was a Discussion Thread and I went, Aha.  I know the answer to that.  So I posted the solution and then I found out (a few days later) a few more threads with the same issue.  A few copy-n-paste sessions later, someone (I've forgotten who) gave me a score.

My supervisor has started a joke around our section that I received the NetPro recognition just to shut me up. 

[Daniel Bruhn]

Hi Leo,

Just when I thought you had an answer for everything   We have tried to set expectations that CSC is a community made up of volunteers and answers aren't guaranteed, but not everyone seems to understand.  Some time back, I believe it was Jon who suggested we create a "Tips for getting a faster response" document which would highlight some of the common problems we see on CSC including the one you're posting about.  We thought it was a great idea and created the document .  This document is open for all members to edit. I encourage anyone who has something to add to go ahead and make changes accordingly.  We can always highlight this document on landing pages if everyone thinks it will help.

Cheers,

Dan

[Leo Laohoo]

Just last week, George and I were just dumbfounded to see the same topic (something like "How do you configure a WLC") posted by three people at the same time.  If they had learned to use the search button, these posters would've found the answers.  And that's the good news.  The bad news is when we gave them links to the configuration guide two of the three are reluctant to read `em.  It's like what they really meant in their post goes in the tune of "I don't want to read.  I'm in a hurry.  I want someone to fix my problem.  NOW!"

I don't want to be rude or condescending (I hope I'm not!).  I enjoy this forum mainly because of the things I learn from others.  But trying to troubleshoot something that was caused by someone who's unwilling to read the configuration guide is just plain ... ummmm ... what a good word for this ... tell y'all what, you decide the word and let me know!  (I've got the word in my mind but I don't want the "expletive engine" to go mental.  All the hard work Tim, Dan and the rest going down the tube because of a few "colourful" adjectives.)

I know it's a guy thing (ok, ok, ok.  I am!) not to read manuals or something but when I'm dealing with equipments this expensive, I HAVE TO!

I agree with Dan that some should read the "Making the Most of CSC Discussions (NetPro) : Tips for Getting Faster Response" but the question is this:  If they won't read the document links we've posted will they ever read this?  I hope no one will take any offense when I say that the Cisco Support Community forum is a professional forum.  It's not one of those "hobby" forums where one has to read the riot act before you can post anything or something.  No siree.  We are professionals.  Professionals with ethiques ... and professionals who rose the corporate (public service included) ranks because we READ THE FR1GG1N MANUALS for goodness sake!

Rob, Jon, Mike, Maria:  Don't get me started with the points.

Hey Dan, just a question.  If, for example, Mr.  A makes multiple post of the same topic can I request the duplicate post(s) be removed?  If I can, may I just put "Duplicate post" in the Report Abuse section?

Now, just on the lighter side ... In EDS, there are three notorious questions no business unit wants to hear me ask.  They are the following:

1.  Are you throwing that away?
2.  Can I have that?
3.  Guess what I found!

Everytime I ask the third question, I can hear a mad scramble from various business units to check their equipments, do a quick inventory or peer over the partition to determine what equipments I've lifted/nicked.  In 2006, I entered our building with a shopping trolley filled with Cisco routers, switches and other network equipments.  "K-Mart was having a sale," I told `em.

[Jon Marshall]

Leo

Everytime I ask the third question, I can hear a mad scramble from various business units to check their equipments, do a quick inventory or peer over the partition to determine what equipments I've lifted/nicked.  In 2006, I entered our building with a shopping trolley filled with Cisco routers, switches and other network equipments.  "K-Mart was having a sale," I told `em.

Sounds like we have something in common. Last job i was in i needed a lab to test solutions before going live. There was no official funding so things just kind of got "misplaced". I actually managed to get up to a pair of 6500 switches with sup720s, FWSMs etc., a couple of 7200 routers, some ASA firewalls etc.. before my boss realised just how much i had managed to get hold of and volunteered to lend the 6500s to the oracle developers for a while.

Never got them back but learn't an awful lot in the meantime

Jon

[George Stefanick]

I think that is the LONGEST post Leo has ever written here at NetPros! I didnt know you had that much hot air in ya! LOL

... I would respond with something meaningful, but I am 7 beers into my Friday!