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ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Welcome to the Cisco Networking Professionals Ask the Expert conversation. This is an opportunity to discuss with Cisco expert Dan Hanson about Enterprise Optical Solutions. Dan Hanson joined Cisco in June of 2000 as a systems engineer for Service Provider in Bloomington, Minnesota before moving to the Enterprise Advanced Technology Organization. Currently, he is an overlay consulting systems engineer, focusing on optical solutions including CWDM, DWDM, SONET, GBIC, and SFP technologies for the Enterprise. His areas of expertise include Routing, Switching, QoS, WDM, TDM, and Datacenter technologies. Mr. Hanson is CCIE #4482 for Routing and Switching, and is a world wide SME (Subject Matter Expert) on xWDM and SONET/SDH technologies.

Remember to use the rating system to let Dan know if you have received an adequate response.

Dan might not be able to answer each question due to the volume expected during this event. Our moderators will post many of the unanswered questions in other discussion forums shortly after the event. This event lasts through December 9, 2005. Visit this forum often to view responses to your questions and the questions of other community members.

16 REPLIES
Silver

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Hello Dan,

What Methods can I use to bring WAN and MAN connections into my locations?

Thanks,

Tom

Cisco Employee

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Thomas,

When talking about Enterprise Optical, there are a few methods typically used to bring these types of connections in.

The first is a point to point line, this can be anything from copper links (DS1, DS3, HSSI, etc.) or for larger aggregate bandwidths OC-3/12/48/192 can be used. Providers have services (ILEC tarrif or perhaps CLEC) to bring these links into the networks, and then enterprises can load these links with DS1 trunks, DS3 voice/data links, OC-n types of links also. These links can typically be between customer sites, or between a Central Office/POP and a customer site.

The second option might be a managed optical ring service from a provider that will carry OC-3/12/48/192 speeds and the ring will typically touch multiple enterprise sites in the MAN, and also touch Central Offices, Carrier Hotels, or other CoLo facilities. The customer premise equipment is managed by the provider, and the services typically carry ring and port (service) charges. An extention of this for the WAN itself can be an OC-n link, where the enterprise can light these WAN links and utilize thier own (or via outsourcing) optical gear to provide for link or carrier redundancy.

A third option is a managed DWDM service where a carrier can connect fiber between multiple enterprise locations within a MAN and light services on wavelengths in that dedicated fiber path. These services can carry data services, or SONET services on a specific wavelength. When doing this, there are typically tarrif issues when bringing these services from a CO (putting the DWDM nodes within a CO - but this varies widely by carrier).

An extension of this can be a long haul "wavelength" service, where a customer can pass different types of traffic (up to a maximum data rate) transparently through the carrier network. The actual drops appear as local equipment to the carrier gear, but the transport itself is managed by the provider.

Another option typically considered is a private fiber situation (leased, buried, purchased, etc.) that is more widespread in government and educational type of situations - with increasing ability for enterprises to obtain fiber assets and light it themselves. These dark fiber providers can touch many customer sites, carrier hotels, POP's, etc. but brining in links from an ILEC can prove to require additional link (perhaps of the first type above). Enterprise customers can create a "virtual" managed service on thier own fiber where they own the optical equipment, and outsource the operations, administration, maintenance, and provisioning functions.

Others are out there, but most generally fall into one of these categories.

Thanks

Bronze

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Dan,

When extending the Datacenter connectivity, will Optical always help?

Please let me know.

Thanks,

Frank

Cisco Employee

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Frank,

Many times Optical technologies will assist with connecting DataCenters. These connections can include private lines of DS3, OC3, OC12, etc. and then the customer can use Optical Hardware to multiplex thier services on these links (Layer2/3 Ethernet, FiberChannel, ESCON, FICON, FICON Express, etc.) that are either private or contracted from an SP.

If the Enterprise has thier own (purchased, buried, or leased) fiber, they can use Optical gear to offer these same services.

Optical technologies in general will provide many options to share the bandwidth between datacenters.

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Hi Dan,

What types of long haul connection options are available that Optical solutions can utilize?

Kevin

Cisco Employee

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Kevin,

Leased lines are the most common, with DS1/DS3/OC3 (really OC3c) leading the pack. When Enterprise's use Optical gear to tackle WAN connectivity, other options might make more sense. If the links are OC3/12/48/192 (channelized not concatented) then the Enterprise can implement its own Optical network on top of those links to carry DS1/DS3/OC-Nc/GigE/FiberChannel services, and control the provisioning themselves (turnup times, no added port charges, etc.)

Another service becoming more common amoung the carriers (especially greenfield IXC's) is a wavelength service where there are no channelized OC-N links, instead handoffs that can carry traffic up to a maximum speed at a layer lower than SONET. This means the carrier handles all the long haul engineering issues, but the customer can directly light gigE/FC/SONET type services themselves on that wavelength service, and the handoff is fiber to the carrier on each end.

Hope this helps.

Dan

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Hi Dan,

I have couple questions regarding Cisco optical solutions:

1/ Many of the enterprise customers would like to use DWDM lasers on the client side and not use transponders/muxponders. Some vendors will provide even tunable DWDM XENPACKs on the client side, hopefully Cisco as well... Question: What needs to be taken care of in such case when there is DWDM laser on the client sides and two different vendors client devices are being used, interoperability? (E)FEC, 50GHz vs. 100GHz spacing etc.

2/ To provide end-to-end managed optical solution, is CTM the answer to this? Will it support also other platforms than ONS only? (C6500/7600, GSR, CSR-1)?

3/ Will Cisco provide a low cost CWDM solution that is transponder/muxponder based and not GBIC/SFP based? Any plans for 10G CWDM?

regards,

Jp Santamaki

Cisco Employee

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Hi Jp,

I will offer inputs one by one.

1) The answer to this part really is two, one from the perspective of technical feasability, the other from a support perspective. From the technical side, if the DWDM laser output is ITU-T G.694.1 with 100GHz spacing then the Cisco transport gear will handle these "alien" wavelengths. One important note, Cisco uses the 4-skip-1 plan where we handle 4 channels in the grid, skip one, then work with the next 4. Vendors vary in these channel plans.

The spacing (25/50/100/200GHz) has to be matched up, not only to ensure center wavelengths are common, but depending on your channel density you will want to monitor the channel stability (50/100GHz stable signal).

The FEC or EFEC codes are important on the chipset driving the laser, and will allow the links to go further without electrical regeneration, but from a raw Optical gear standpoint most dont monitor FEC codes.

For the second part, it will be almost impossible to find a vendor who will be willing to support these DWDM wavelength intermix modes as the many parameters that vary, can cause a support nightmare. That perhaps is the largest issue to iron out in a customer situation.

Question2:

CTM will do Optical end to end, but today will not effectively manage the 65/76, GSR, or CRS-1. The CTM platform can be extended to manage these elements also as this would be a nice fit, but any details of such plans would have to be discussed with your account team.

Question3:

Cisco will provide (Dec 05 or Jan 06) a 2 channel wavelength converter that looks much like our CWDM devices with the exception that it is powered. There are 2 client ports and 2 line ports which can handle SX/LX/CWDM/DWDM SFP's. There are currently no plans for 10G CWDM, as you will see the component pricing (and therefore product pricing) of the 10G DWDM XENPAK type solutions are closing the Gap with CWDM at 10Gig.

Hope this helps

Dan

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Hello: I was perusing through the cisco book offerings and noticed a few that, well, seemed a bit dated.For example, Routing Tcp/Ip Vol.II was first printed in 2001 while the second edition is printed in 2005 with updates. While this question is afield of "intense" Optical categories, those titles in the area of "OC" are of much interest and I would like you to address the notion of dated material found in some of the offerings by Cisco

Thank You, Jerry

Cisco Employee

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

I cannot offer an official corporate response, as I am an engineer supporting a specific solution set, but many of our Cisco Press books are written by experts both inside and outside Cisco. When updates to these are ready for review, others will review for technical accuracy and offer inputs. The who and why of the review process is the meat of the question, but not having authored a Cisco Press book I cannot give a solid answer this.

Sorry for being vague on this.

Dan

Hall of Fame Super Silver

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

I am installing a pair of 15454 MSTPs between two sites. OC-48 transponder cards on the MSTP will take output from an OC-48 AS card at site A (ONS 15454 MSPP node) and from a PPM in an ASAP card at Site B (ONS 15600 MSPP node). 15216 DWDM shelves with 8 channel filters will be passive components between the MSTP shelves.

My question is should I set the transponder cards to terminate the SONET line framing? If I don't, wouldnt the MSTPs show up as unconnected "islands" in my CTC domain? I would like them to show as they are in actuality (between the MSPPs) but don't see how CTC would know this if there was no DCC channel established (which would, as I understand it, require SONET framing termination).

Cisco Employee

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

I am not 100% sure I understand, but will take a stab at this.

When you have the MSTP shelves (and they really arent if you are using the 15216 shelves and filters - 9x red, or 8 channel flexlayer) you want to have the transponders monitor but not terminate the DCC channels. This way the 15600 and the MSPP will see each other through the DWDM system.

The DWDM shelves will see each other through a GCC channel in the line framing between the transponders, but the unconnected part will be the 2 SONET nodes seeing the 2 DWDM nodes.

If you terminate the DCC channels on the transponders, you will have end to end visibility using both DCC and GCC.

Hope this helps

Dan

Hall of Fame Super Silver

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

I believe you confirmed my suspicion, Dan. I need to terminate DCC to have CTC understand the devices as connected.

To clarify, I am using BOTH 15454 MSTPs and 15216 FlexLayer. In addition to the MSPP I/O's, the MSTPs also interface with my LAN equipment using 10 Gbps transponders into 10Gbps Ethernet on Extreme LAN switches. Network side I/O from the MSTPs is into and out of two channels on the 15216 FlexLayer modules.

While I don't gain any functionality provisioning-wise by terminating DCC on the MSTPs, I do get a CTC domain view that more closely matches the actual physical configuration, arguably assisting when somebody other than the system engineer views the system layout in the future.

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

Hello, here's a simple SFP related question:

When using the command "show int g1/47 transceiver detail" on a Catalyst 4948 with a model GLC-ZX-SM SFP installed, optical transmit & receive levels are shown along with "A2D readouts" reported in parentheses (for example "Transmit Power (dbm)" shown as "3.7 (0.7)"). Where do these numbers come from since the spec sheet says this model SPF doesn't support Digital Optical Monitoring? Also, what's the difference between the first value and the "A2D" value reported?

Thank you for any information since the documentation is weak explaining what power levels this command is actually reporting and doesn't explain what "A2D" stands for (Analog to Digital??).

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

We have 15454-G1K-4. We misordered ONS-GC-GE-SX instead of ONS-GC-GE-LX. Does the G1K-4 use standard GBICs? Could we substitute a WS-G5486?

I'm under the impression these GBICs are not the same.

Thanks.

Cisco Employee

Re: ASK THE EXPERT – ENTERPRISE OPTICAL SOLUTIONS

These are not the same. They will work (in temporary situations I have had to use these) until replacements arrive, but they are not a supported configuration - so TAC wont be officially able to help.

Dan

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