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ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Welcome to the Cisco Networking Professionals Ask the Expert conversation. This is an opportunity to learn how XMPP and CSF are implemented in next version of CUPS, CUPC and other UC clients with Cisco expert Michael Luo. Michael is a senior technical assistance center engineer at Cisco Systems, Inc. He works in the unified communication team which covers CUCM(CallManager), CUPS (Unified Presence), CER(Emergency REsponder/e911), etc. Before that, he worked in UCCX (IPCC Express) team. Michael has more than 15 years of experience in IT industry. Michael worked in China, Hong Kong and US for many IT vendors such as Novell, Sun, Avaya, Cisco. He holds many IT certifications such as CCIE (#6183, Routing & Switching), MCSE, MCNE, OCP, JNCIE. Michael is also a Cisco certified specialist on UCCX and CUPS and is the author of the book, "Deploying Cisco Unified Presence."

Remember to use the rating system to let Michael know if you have received an adequate response.

Michael might not be able to answer each question due to the volume expected during this event. Our moderators will post many of the unanswered questions in other discussion forums shortly after the event. This event lasts through April 9, 2010. Visit this forum often to view responses to your questions and the questions of other community members.

81 REPLIES
Super Bronze

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hi Michael

Are you aware of future development plans for CUPC?

One of the really annoying things about it is the video support - in softphone mode, you get video control, but in deskphone mode you lose control of video and have to use VTA in conjunction with CUPC to get any video at all.

I have been wondering if this is roadmapped to be fixed - e.g. preferably just do point-to-point video based on the two CUPC endpoints realising that they have an active deskphone-deskphone (or deskphone-softphone) conversation? Or even VTA style phone detection, thought that would give less deployment flexibility..

Thanks

Aaron

Aaron Please remember to rate helpful posts to identify useful responses, and mark 'Answered' if appropriate!
Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hi Aaron,

The video feature has been built in CUPC 8.0, targeted to be shipped in two months.  Yes, it has CUVA (VTA) feature built in.  You don't need separate VTA to do desk phone video.  Not enough?  It supports HD video (720p 30fps)!

In Desk Phone mode, PC-to-Phone connection is required.  This is to make sure the video synchronized with voice.  Otherwise, you'll see funny things like your buddy has stopped talking but his mouth is still moving.

CUPC 8.0 was built on CSF (Client Service Framework) technology.  CSF is a common framework provides UC features like voice, video, voicemail, directory service, presence, instant messaging, etc.  CSF can be used by different applications, such as CUPC, CUCIMOC, CUCI Connect, web phone, wireless headset, etc.

CSF to UC applications is like IOS to Cisco routers.

Michael

http://htluo.blogspot.com

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Can you use CSF to bring presence into web applications or any other third-party applications?

If my company had some application into which we wanted to integrate presence - would it be possible to capture AND update presence information?

Also - how does CUPS v8.0 handle presence? Is there an internal database that stores the content? If so, can this be offloaded for large deployments?

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Yes, you can use CSF with other applilcations.  please see  https://supportforums.cisco.com/message/3043814#3043814.

CUPS "handles" presence in memory.  For large deployments, you may deploy multi-node: http://docwiki.cisco.com/wiki/Cisco_Unified_Presence%2C_Release_7.x_--_Planning_a_Cisco_Unified_Presence_Multi-Node_Deployment

Michael

http://htluo.blogspot.com

Super Bronze

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hi

Good stuff - I'm on the 8.0 beta so will look forward to testing that..

Are there any more new features we can look forward to in the new client?

Thanks

Aaron

Aaron Please remember to rate helpful posts to identify useful responses, and mark 'Answered' if appropriate!
Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Other new features are majorly IM features:

  • Group Chat
  • Persistent Chat Room
  • Offline IM
  • 3rd-party IM client support

Some other stuffs are:

  • Visual Voicemail
  • Video conferencing and TelePresence Integration
  • SRST Failover
  • Click to Call from many applications (not just Outlook)

Michael

Super Bronze

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hi Michael

Ah... Outlook you say?

On that subject, is it possible to dial from the GAL?

For example: I email you, and we're from the same AD Domain, so you can see my AD phone attributes if you right click me in the 'From' field.

Can you dial me from the context menu, without first adding me to your personal Contacts?

In the current release you have to add someone to contacts before the CUPC toolbar will allow dialing - whilst this works, it means any subsequent changes to numbers in AD aren't automatically kept up to date on the client.

Thanks

Aaron

Aaron Please remember to rate helpful posts to identify useful responses, and mark 'Answered' if appropriate!
Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Oh...yes.  Forgot to mention another "feature".  The new CUPC should be able to dial GAL.  Old CUPC can only dial local contacts.  Thanks for pointing this out. 

Michael

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hi,

You mentioned video conferencing and telepresence integration. Will CSF 8.0 be based on standards relative to video. In other words, will it have the same video standard challenges that telepresence has had in the past, or will it interop with non-cisco h.323 clients and MCUs?

Thanks,

Kevin

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hmm.. that's a good question.

To be honest, I don't have the answer regarding interoperability.  CSF developers were busy enough just to make it work with Cisco products. 

But I believe this should be catered at some point.  If you ever noticed that Cisco introduced IME (Intercompany Media Engine) with UC 8.0 solution, which allows different companies exchange multi-media conents (such as video calls) even when they are using 3rd-party PBX.  Interoperability would be a key factor in the IME approach.

Michael

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Ok....do you have any suggestion on a good avenue where I could pursue that question further?

Thanks,

kevin

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

I'll check with the guys would built it.  At the meanwhile, if you have a Cisco account manager, you may also engage him.  He should refer you to the product marketing people who can answer those questions.

Michael

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hi michael,

do cisco had any plan to join CUPS to CUCM to the same box? cause it look like OCS R2 and Next version OCS 2014 were all in one integrated solution (IP Telephony,IM,Conference) and its look very friedly in end users perspective.

also as you share next CUPC client-it look like that Cisco plan to go to WebEx  , what 's the customer benefit? i'm mean all webex were on the clound ,and mostly customer really prefer Conference(Voice,Web,Video) on customer hosted, and is it possible to federation betweeen OCS,MSN and Jabber in current version?

THK

manit

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Joining CUPS to CUCM is more like a business decision other than technical.  I haven't heard anything yet.  Since both CUPS 8 and CUCM 8 is supported on VMWare, you could put them in a single box (VMWare). 

CUPC just "steal" the webex ball.  It's not going to webex.

Current version of CUPS is XMPP based.  It can federate with any XMPP compliant system, like Sametime, Jabber, GoogleTalk, etc.

Michael

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Thank you

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Is there any plans to open the CSF API to 3rd party developers?

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

You're right on.  CSF has serveral flavors:

  • CSF - For desktop applications, like CUPC, CUCIMOC, CUCI Connect, future CIPC, CUVA etc.
  • ThinCSF - For mobile devices, like cell phones, PDAs, wireless headsets, etc.
  • WebCSF - For web-based applications.
  • OpenCSF - API for 3rd-party developers.

Michael

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Any plans in the new release for a thin-client?  Can I use Jabber IM or even the SIP/SIMPLE-based IM/Chat on a web app?

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

In Cisco terms, "thinCSF" was used on mobile devices.  "webCSF" was used in web clients.

Yes, Cisco already have web clients that can do presence and chat.

Michael

http://htluo.blogspot

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hi Michael,

First, I have some questions to the built-in click to call functionality.
Is it true that 8.0 supports:
- shortcut dialing?
- TelURI?

And then another question regarding presence:
If I search for a user in CUPC, I get a list of all matches in AD but I cannot directly see their presence status.
I'd first have to right click > contact details or add them to my buddy list. Will CUPC 8.0 display presence already as early as in the search results?

If I have a WebEx MeetingCenter account, can I integrate WebEx functionality using the new WebEx button?

And then one last question: Does CUPC 8.0 come with a "transfer" button?
If not, can we expect it to appear in 8.5?

Thanks a lot.

Lukas

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

  • Click-to-Call

CUPC 8 utilizes Microsoft SmartTag to retrieve phone numbers.  It's the same as Cisco Click-to-Call widget.  It supports shortcut dial.  I'm not sure about Tel URI though.  I'll test and update.

  • Directory Presence

Yes, CUPC 8 will display presence on directory search.

  • Webex Button

Webex feature was there since CUPC 7.  Whether to put it on the "Webex ball" is undetermined.

  • Transfer button

There's no "transfer" button on CUPC 8.  I'll check with developer to see if it can be built.

Thanks!

Michael

Cisco Employee

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Can you please explain how XMPP integrates with existing Presence Engine and SIP Proxy services? You have great examples in your book with log files that explain how Presence Engine communicates with SIP Proxy service, so I would like too see same examples with XMPP, PE and SIP Proxy. Thanks

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

With acquisition of Jabber Inc., Cisco incorporated Jabber XCP (Extensible Collaboration Platform) into CUPS.

The original Presence Engine (PE) and SIP Proxy (Proxy) are now categorized as RPS - Rich Presence Service.  The new XCP services are called XCP (of course).

RPS and XCP co-exist on CUPS 8.0.  There's a "emulation interface" between those two.  This is because the regular rich presence (phone presence, calendar presence) is still interfacing with Proxy and PE.

CUPS will support SIP and XMPP client simutaenously.  This will be the case until Cisco can "migrate" all SIP application to XMPP (more specific, phone presence and calendar).

Michael

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hello Michael,

I am not real close to this topic, so please bear with me, but I have some "Big Picture" questions:

Is it accurate to say that SIMPLE is fading and XMPP is replacing it for IM and Presence?

If so, I am a little confused since I thought SIP was "the future" because it can do things like IM and Presence as well as call control. It seems like it was oversold by the SIP-worshippers.

In terms of acquiring skills for job security for the future, where are we headed? SIP for call control and XMPP for IM and Presence? Does SIP still have a strong future for call control at least?

Finally, isn't OCS still SIMPLE-based, or is MS moving to XMPP too?

Sorry for the philosophical questions, but I am just trying to gauge the future directions of the market so I can adapt accordingly.

Thanks.

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

This is actually a very intersting topic.

In IT industry, it won't be surprising to see some technology was sung so high yesterday and fades out tomrrow.  If you're old enought, you should still remember Token-Ring, FDDI, and ATM.  Those were the network protocols "supposed" to be the future. 

XMPP was adopted by many big names like Google, Microsoft, Webex, IBM Sametime, etc.  Google even proposed a call control extension for XMPP (called Jingle).

However, XMPP is a pretty young protocol comparing with SIP (espeically on the call control side).  XMPP won't replace SIP overnight.

Cisco is also adopting XMPP in many products.  CUPS is just one of them.

I don't know how soon Cisco will use XMPP as call control.  But there will sure be a possibility.

OCS 2007 R2 is SIMPLE-based.  Microsoft provides a "XMPP Gateway" (add-on component) to interface with XMPP systems.

http://communicationsserverteam.com/archive/2009/10/02/620.aspx

O'Reilly has a book called "XMPP: The Definitive Guide", which would be a good starting point for XMPP learning.

Michael

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Hi Michael,

I get a little bit confused with XMPP and CUPS version.

You said that "Current version of CUPS is XMPP based.  It can federate with any XMPP compliant system, like Sametime, Jabber, GoogleTalk, etc."

You are talking here about version 7 or 8?

Thanks!

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

Sorry for the confusion.  I meant "CUPS 8 is XMPP based". 

Michael

New Member

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

By the way, is it also possible to federate CUPS 7 with a XMPP system?

CUPS 8 will be compatible with CUCM 7?

Thanks again!

Fernando

Red

Re: ASK THE EXPERT - UNIFIED PRESENCE SERVER

You cannot federate CUPS 7 with XMPP system.  Because there's no XMPP features on CUPS 7 at all.  You may do SIP federation on CUPS 7 though.

CUPS 8 is compatible with with the following CUCM version:

5.0(4), 5.1(3), 6.0(1), 6.1(1), 6.1(2), 6.1(3), 6.1(4), 7.0(1), 7.0(2), 7.1(2), 7.1(3), 8.0(1)

Michael

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