Re: Is the IP over DWDM solution standardlized?

caoxianglei · ‎07-09-2009

Because if this solution is not standardlized, the carriers cannot accept this solution--IP direct over DWDM without OTU board.

Not standardlized means absolutely monopolization. So the carriers are not fool.

viyuan700 · ‎07-09-2009

IP over DWDM is standard and will work over those follow those standard but market is finding new ways to inetgrate these layers see this link for two other approach such as Packet Optical Transport(POTS)

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=163676

Some carriers will have IP over DWDM now but can change to other methods later if they find that method can save them more than current method.

IP over DWDM cannot be without OTU, if there is no OTU then it has to IP over SONET/SDH/DWDM. DWDM is just the multiplexing of several wavelengthc into a fiber and to take them thousands of miles away not doing anything else, so something is required to carry IP earlier it was SONET/SDH in IP over DWDM it is OTU (G.709).

caoxianglei · ‎07-11-2009

Thank you very much, Viyuan700. Your hyperlink is very helpful.

And I think maybe you are not familiar with Cisco IP over DWDM solution, without OTU is this solution's highlight. IP Router directly connect to the MUX/DEMUX to save the OTU board, and TDM service maybe use TDM OTU or use the PWE3 etc. to transport. so I think "something is required to carry IP earlier it was SONET/SDH in IP over DWDM it is OTU (G.709)" is not exact.

viyuan700 · ‎07-11-2009

"IP Router directly connect to the MUX/DEMUX to save the OTU board, and TDM service maybe use TDM OTU or use the PWE3 etc"

Could you please send me some link what is this OTU board? By OTU board, I was thinking you are talking about G.709 complaint 10Gb module. Is OTU is a different board.

Cisco IP over DWDM prodcut like CRS-1 has 3 interface types,

10Gb POS

10Gb DPT

10Gb tunable WDM interface module (I am thinking you are talking about this card as with OTU card)

In these first 2 type of cards if you want to take it over DWDM you are connecting to a transponder on DWDM system (IP/SONET/DWDM which in my earlier message told this as without OTU baord )

In 3rd type of card based on G709 you dont need transponder card in DWDM system you can directly connect to the Optical MUX no need of transposnder (I thought you consider this as OTU card but i think there is some different OTU card). In this method if the G.709 compatible Router (like CRS -1) can either go over CISCO DWDM system/system working CRS or any other DWDM system.

In first method where Router is going over cisco or cisco compatible DWDM system, you need single NMS system to create the circuit.

But in 2nd method where it is going over any DWDM system you need different management sytem to control Router & different for DWDM system. Juniper (G. 709 compatible Router ) is working with Nokia siemens (DWDM) to create one management system.

Open for discussion if anything siad above is working in diffrent way.

caoxianglei · ‎07-13-2009

ahha, I thought you are not familiar with this area and i find you are an expert.

1.first we need to define a concept between us. OTU, means transponder, it just transfer the clint signal to DWDM signal compliant with maybe G.709,maybe other standard.

2."Could you please send me some link what is this OTU board?"

you can search "TXP_MR_2.5G and TXPP_MR_2.5G Cards" in this site. this card can deal with TDM service.

3. "In first method where Router is going over cisco or cisco compatible DWDM system, you need single NMS system to create the circuit. "

I think this conclusion is from Data Communication Department because the transport Deaprtment also need a NMS to manange the transport network. right?

4.question:"In this method if the G.709 compatible Router (like CRS -1) can either go over CISCO DWDM system/system working CRS or any other DWDM system."

I dont think so, this is just why I opened this discussion, because, you know, no vendor would like to compliant with CRS-1 DWDM interface, OTU is the most value of the transport network. and different DWDM has different encoding method.

what do you think about it?

viyuan700 · ‎07-13-2009

I dont consider myself an expert on this topic or any other my knowledge is like few drops of the oceans so lot more to learn.

I dont think so, this is just why I opened this discussion, because, you know, no vendor would like to compliant with CRS-1 DWDM interface, OTU is the most value of the transport network. and different DWDM has different encoding method.

My optical knowledge tells me(i can be wrong) that if CRS-1 G.709 module need to be transposted over any other vendor DWDM system AND if the siganl is NOT 3R regenrated (means you are not using the transponder of other vendor)it it either going through a Optical Amplifier or Dispersion module. Then i dont think these different encoding method is considered by these modules.

These different encoding techniques(I think you are talking about FEC & Enhanced FEC ) are important when you are sending it over a distance when it undergo 3R regeneration.

Something like Crs-1 (G709 card)-Other Vendor (Optical MUx, Optical Amplifier etc NO Transposnder) -CRS-1 (G.709Card ) a setup which i think is not dependent on what encoding is being used.

Forexample here Cisco CRS-1 is implemented with Ciena Optical Transposrt. (I dont know the validity of this deployment as i know things are different when you want to deploy these solutions)

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1478443/sprint_cisco_and_ciena_fuel_nextgeneration_services_with_40gbps_circuits/

caoxianglei · ‎07-13-2009

I like your answers and the way you answer to questions.

1. actually, I think IPoDWDM spreader is cisco. but except for some small DWDM company (I mean correspondingly) would like to support IPoDWDM like Ciena. I dont think ALU will support CRS-1 in near future.

2. otherwise, like NSN, he has also deliver the IPoDWDM product with Juniper. I dont believe CRS-1 will intercommunication with them. NSN dont like. Cisco dont like, and Juniper also dont like. Because of the behalf respectively.

What is your opinion?

viyuan700 · ‎07-14-2009

There are few things to consider,

1.

Which router are using IP over DWDM now only CRS-1, 12000 router from ciso and Juniper High end routers (Major players)that too 10G kind of bandwidth.

Less customers need that kind of bandwidth

Optical Technology are not mature in comparisan to electrial based crossconnect where you can do more.

In light of above points, they have their own method to implement as only fewer players.

There are things in the past where cisco was doing things their way as they were happy with the market share but once they want to grow beyond that they took standard approach few things to name in Switctes & Router such as Dot1.q encapsulation (ISL of cisco), LDP (Label Distribution PRotocol) MPLS (Cisco Tag),etc ...

Once you have demand & better Optical boxes, i see things will change (I think if we have better Optical boxes first, demand will follow as price will come down). Till then everybody will push their standard.

2.

In one of your message you said creating is circuit is NMS point to view but

If a box is SONET complaint to SONET standard maybe it has own standard for NMS. So a carrier thinking to change to different vendor have to think whether to go or not( as any NMS guy here will tell you how important it is).

But i think if a box is SONET complaint but can be managed with a single NMS (i think there is some OSS standard)then carrier has not to think much to change vendor as he know he can manage all boxes from a same computer.

caoxianglei · ‎07-14-2009

sorry, here NSN stand for (Nokia Semenes) they and Juniper pair for IPoDWDM solution. but thank you all the same.

viyuan700 · ‎07-14-2009

see this link and hope will give u some more info,

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps5845/products_qanda_item09186a008022d5f7.shtml

two main points

1. Q. Does the Cisco IPoDWDM solution interoperate with products of any other vendors?

A. Cisco has products that interoperate with like products of three leading optical vendors, but the company is not free to disclose their names at this point.

2.IP over DWDM interfaces are fully compatible with the Cisco ONS 15454 MSTP and are also designed to interoperate with any existing installed DWDM infrastructure.

caoxianglei · ‎07-16-2009

As you say, I only have to say other tradional transport vender will face a big vital problem.