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New Member

High density design in Open park

I have an open park with nothing to attenuate the signal and so I'm concerned about CCI on 2.4. I will have a standing crowd of 20,000 but only catering to 6000 concurrent users. No seats to hide antennas below, and so I'm thinkig about using poles that can be rolled into positon but worried that in open air and about 100APs I will have CCI. I'm using the only directional antenna that comes with a 3600. Suggestions?                  

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Accepted Solutions
New Member

High density design in Open park

Definetly a unique/tough scenario

Keep in mind, that the words 2.4ghz and 'high density' dont really go well together =)

Your best bet (imagine a perfect square , with 100 dots evenly distributed between), would be to manually shut down the 2.4ghz on most of the access points and let the 5ghz do all the heavy lifting. Just design it on paper so that you know which AP will be on which 2.4ghz channel and try to get those spaced apart further

I'd also say statically setting the power in addition to channel. 5ghz should hopefully do fine with RRM, but you'll jsut have to set it up and see

I'd also take a look at the UNII2-ext. Most clients support it now adays

How high up on these temporary poles are the access points going to be? I'm assuming you already have the 3602E models, so are you stuck with those patch antennas? Or do you have the 'rubber ducky' style on hand?

Not sure which antenna you have but if i remember correctly the beam width on the cisco ones is fairly wide, so even if you cant get it very high up, it should still have a good 'spread' to it, which should actually help with CCI in your situation

You could also set one up and do a quick survey with just one up and running and see how it propogates, that will help you design the rest around it etc.

I'm curious to see how it goes so keep us posted =)

I'm imagining an empty field with no trees, with 100 poles with access points on them lol

Feel free to add a picture of it setup

New Member

Re: High density design in Open park

Nana,

Just want to make sure you understood my post, i might not have been clear =)

It's not 5Ghz only

You still have 2.4Ghz enabled, but only on select access points, so that you cut down the CCI in high density setups

If your doing true HD setups like in a stadium (with narrow beam directionals aimed down, or even up from the floor for that matter), then you could still manage to leave 2.4ghz on all access points, but when your dealing with opea areas and omnis , you have to get creative =)

10 REPLIES
Hall of Fame Super Silver

High density design in Open park

Typically you would use the MESH 1552 ap's which is for outdoor and is rated for outdoor.  You can always reduce the TX Power and remove lower data rates.  This goes for the 3600's also, but I would not use patch antennas unless you are trying to cover a large area with few antennas.

Thanks,

Scott

Help out other by using the rating system and marking answered questions as "Answered"

-Scott
*** Please rate helpful posts ***
New Member

High density design in Open park

The 1552s are too heavy for mobile-poles and I have nowhere to mount to, it's a temporary event. If it was permanent then we could stick a pole in the ground. Cisco has 3602P which is outdoor rated. My biggest challenge is mounting the Antenna and then is managing RF in open space. yes, u can turn tx power for small cells but again its an open park with nothing to mount to for a 2day event. We considered tripods but then again....Have you deployed a similar event in an area 600ft * 1200 feet, if so, how did u do it, but I'm only focusing on 600*500ft area for 20,000people. I'm looking for something I havent thought of yet. I appreciate your time and input. Thanks

Hall of Fame Super Silver

Re: High density design in Open park

Well you will have to be creative then as you will have to power up these AP's.  Most temp solutions do use the tripod to mount the access points and you can use that too, however, I have no idea where you can mount them and how many you can have.  I doubt you can get enough AP's to support 20,000 people in an ideal way, but you can at least give them some wifi.  You can also use patch antennas and just shoot them down to the middle on both ends.  You can look at using these antennas for the 2600 or 3600.  At Cisco Live, they use tripods to mount the temp ap's.

AIR-ANT2430V-R=

AIR-ANT2440NV-R=

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps7183/ps469/at_a_glance_c45-513837.pdf

Thanks,

Scott

Help out other by using the rating system and marking answered questions as "Answered"

-Scott
*** Please rate helpful posts ***
New Member

High density design in Open park

Definetly a unique/tough scenario

Keep in mind, that the words 2.4ghz and 'high density' dont really go well together =)

Your best bet (imagine a perfect square , with 100 dots evenly distributed between), would be to manually shut down the 2.4ghz on most of the access points and let the 5ghz do all the heavy lifting. Just design it on paper so that you know which AP will be on which 2.4ghz channel and try to get those spaced apart further

I'd also say statically setting the power in addition to channel. 5ghz should hopefully do fine with RRM, but you'll jsut have to set it up and see

I'd also take a look at the UNII2-ext. Most clients support it now adays

How high up on these temporary poles are the access points going to be? I'm assuming you already have the 3602E models, so are you stuck with those patch antennas? Or do you have the 'rubber ducky' style on hand?

Not sure which antenna you have but if i remember correctly the beam width on the cisco ones is fairly wide, so even if you cant get it very high up, it should still have a good 'spread' to it, which should actually help with CCI in your situation

You could also set one up and do a quick survey with just one up and running and see how it propogates, that will help you design the rest around it etc.

I'm curious to see how it goes so keep us posted =)

I'm imagining an empty field with no trees, with 100 poles with access points on them lol

Feel free to add a picture of it setup

New Member

High density design in Open park

I definitely agree on doing only 5ghz and static power but customer.....wants 2.4 as well,hmmmm(sigh). They are having a concert outdoors and do not want poles everywhere but to use temporary tents on perimeter for mounting. The show is in a month. we will see....

Hall of Fame Super Silver

Re: High density design in Open park

We deploy stadiums and you still need to support 2.4ghz no matter what.  If you look at the users and what devices they will most likely have, well its phones.  So there is you requirement per say.  Even in a stadium... your biggest hit on traffic is during breaks in the event.  Also remember that max client on a AP is 200, but that doesn't mean they will enjoy the throughput.  

Thanks,

Scott

Help out other by using the rating system and marking answered questions as "Answered"

-Scott
*** Please rate helpful posts ***
New Member

Re: High density design in Open park

Nana,

Just want to make sure you understood my post, i might not have been clear =)

It's not 5Ghz only

You still have 2.4Ghz enabled, but only on select access points, so that you cut down the CCI in high density setups

If your doing true HD setups like in a stadium (with narrow beam directionals aimed down, or even up from the floor for that matter), then you could still manage to leave 2.4ghz on all access points, but when your dealing with opea areas and omnis , you have to get creative =)

New Member

Re: High density design in Open park

Exactly, It's open space and that is why 2.4 is a challenge with CCI. S3,S4 and iphone 5 are all 5ghz capable and most smartphones are doing a quick transition to 5ghz too.

Re: High density design in Open park

Directional antennas pointed at the ground letting the rf scatter. If you were at live this was done in this manner. Although indoor, it lessens the spread. Without seeing it its hard to say ..

Read this and google Cisco stadium ..

http://www.cisco.com/web/strategy/docs/sports/c78-675063_dSheet.pdf

Sent from Cisco Technical Support iPad App

__________________________________________________________________________________________ "Satisfaction does not come from knowing the solution, it comes from knowing why." - Rosalind Franklin ___________________________________________________________
New Member

Re: High density design in Open park

I like the grayling, if only we could mount it high enough. I have only  2 areas close to the stage that may approach 40 feet. Every other possible temporary structure is under 20feet

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