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Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Sharath K.P.

Welcome to the Cisco Support Community Ask the Expert conversation. This is an opportunity to learn and ask questions on wired guest access with expert Sharath K.P. Wired guest access enables guest users to connect to the guest access network from a wired Ethernet connection designated and configured for guest access. Sharath K.P. is a Customer Support Engineer specialized in wireless and switching technologies at the Technical Assistance Center in Cisco Bangalore. He has been troubleshooting wireless and switching networks and management tools since 2009. Sharath has a bachelor's degree in Electrical Electronics Engineering from P.E.S College of Engineering (PESCE), VTU at Belgaum. India. He holds CCNP certifications in R&S and Wireless.

Remember to use the rating system to let Sharath know if you have received an adequate response. 

Sharath might not be able to answer each question due to the volume expected during this event.
Remember that you can continue the conversation on the Wireless and Mobility sub-community discussion forum shortly after the event. This event lasts
through January 27, 2012.
Visit this forum often to view responses to your questions and the questions
of other community members.

44 REPLIES
New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi Sharath,

Thanks for opening up this forum, I have a question around having multiple LAN based WLCs, utilising an Anchor controller within a DMZ for Wired Guest connections.

Say we have 4 LAN based controllers, each with a Guest LAN configured utilising Vlan 111, this vlan is then trunked down to our User access switches, whereby we have a user machine connected into a switchport in vlan 111. When the client initially connects, traffic will be forwarded from the client on Vlan 111, and trunked across the network into one of the WLCs - If there are 4 WLCs configured with the Guest LAN, how is the decision made as to which WLC the client will connect too?Obviously, this connectivity all happens at Layer 2, but in my mind, there isn't any particular MAC address or IP address that could be used to base a load-balancing decision on.

I've looked within the Cisco documentation, and have not been able to find anything describing how the above works.

Appreciate your feedback

Thanks

New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Sharath,

I have been wondering the same exact thing.  At many of our sites, we have two 5508 series controllers, one being the primary and one being the secondary.  The controllers are both configured the same, however we put all the access points on one controller to avoid inter-controller roaming.  The secondary exists in case the primary fails.

The guest wired and wireless network is a Cisco textbook design.  I have noticed that wired clients often end up on the secondary controller.  I too am wondering how it works.

Thanks in Advance!

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Helping Sharath out.

As it's a broadcast from the client, the first WLC to get the packet is the one that will respond.  that is the WLC the wired guest will associate with, and tunnel it's traffic to, if you are anchoring.

Steve

HTH, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please remember to rate useful posts, and mark questions as answered

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Steve I know you worked for Cisco TAC. What is your input about the round-robin ?

__________________________________________________________________________________________ "Satisfaction does not come from knowing the solution, it comes from knowing why." - Rosalind Franklin ___________________________________________________________

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi tdennehy ,

So  as per Cisco best pratices using multiple foreign controllers for the same wired guest VLAN is not supported and the results will be unpredictable

We have already opened a bug for the same (Little late though )

BUG ID :CSCtw44999

The WLC Config Guide should clarify our support for redundancy options for wired guest

Symptom:

Do not trunk a wired guest VLAN to multiple foreign controllers.  This is not supported, and will
generate unpredictable results.

However what you see in you network ,where wired guest clients show up on the secondary WLC is
normal behavoiur .

Criteria would be that nearest WLC on the broadcast domain (Layer 2) would  respond to the client associtation request .

Cisco Controller) >Tue Sep 11 13:27:42 2007: 00:0d:60:5e:ca:62 Adding mobile on Wired Guest 00:00:00:00:00:00(0) Tue Sep 11 13:27:42 2007: 00:0d:60:5e:ca:62 apfHandleWiredGuestMobileStation (apf_wired_guest.c:121) Changing state for mobile  00:0d:60:5e:ca:62 on AP 00:00:00: 00:00:00 from Idle to Associated .

Regards,

Sharath K.P.

New Member

Re: Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Sharath,

I am using the screenshot below for simplicity. A small campus with two 5508-500s in it, one is the primary and one is the secondary. The primary controller has all the APs on it, the secondary sits there with nothing, but configured the same, waiting for the primary to fail so it can take over. Each controller configured for three corporate WLANs and one guest WLAN.

Both controllers are configured for guest wireless just like the drawing depicts, with an anchor controller in the DMZ.

Both controllers are configured for guest wired as well. Does CSCtw44999 state that configuring both controllers for guest wired networking is not supported?

Thanks in advance,

Tim

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

I will wait for the response as well. However, I will comment in the mean time based on what I have experienced. If you have a foreign controller and she is anchored to 2 anchor controllers. The foreign controller will "round robin" these users wired or wireless.  That has been my experience.

Example:

User 1 --> Anchor 1

User 2 --> Anchor 2

User 3 --> Anchor 1

USer 4 -->Anchor 2

I asked TAC months ago if this could be changed and was told no. But there was a feature enhancement request in the furture.

Great question. Cant wait for a response as well.

__________________________________________________________________________________________ "Satisfaction does not come from knowing the solution, it comes from knowing why." - Rosalind Franklin ___________________________________________________________

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

With dual anchors, the 'internal/foreign' will round robin to the anchor.  but guest wired is a bit different.

Steve

HTH, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please remember to rate useful posts, and mark questions as answered

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Ok good to know... Is this "wired" side documeted anywhere ?

__________________________________________________________________________________________ "Satisfaction does not come from knowing the solution, it comes from knowing why." - Rosalind Franklin ___________________________________________________________

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

I'd have to look for something more indepth, but there is the configuration guide for it.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_configuration_example09186a00808ed026.shtml

Steve

HTH, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please remember to rate useful posts, and mark questions as answered

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

HI George ,

Nice to work with you again

Yes when we have multiple anchor controller  the client load balancing is done in a 'ROUND ROBIN' way and  as you are aware we have opened a enhancement request for the same . We will work on other options we can provide and which would be feasible .

Your inputs in product feature enhancement is highly appreciated .

Regards ,

Sharath K.P.

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi Daniel ,

Wonderful observation and great question .

Yes, we dont find any recommendation or inputs in Cisco Docs on scenarios  where  we  have multiple foriegn WLC's present .When we go through the Cisco Doc available for Wired Guest Access

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_configuration_example09186a00808ed026.shtml

Two separate solutions are available to the customers:

  1. A single WLAN controller (VLAN Translation mode) - the access switch  trunks the wired guest traffic in the guest VLAN to the WLAN controller  that provides the wired guest access solution. This controller carries  out the VLAN translation from the ingress wired guest VLAN to the egress  VLAN.

  2. Two WLAN controllers (Auto Anchor mode) - the access switch trunks  the wired guest traffic to a local WLAN controller (the controller  nearest to the access switch). This local WLAN controller anchors the  client onto a DMZ Anchor WLAN controller that is configured for wired  and wireless guest access. After a successful handoff of the client to  the DMZ anchor controller, the DHCP IP address assignment,  authentication of the client, etc. are handled in the DMZ WLC. After it  completes the authentication, the client is allowed to send/receive  traffic.

So  as per Cisco best pratices using multiple foreign controllers for the same wired guest VLAN is not supported and the results will be unpredictable

I do understand the confusion regarding such scenario's as this( Multiple foriegn WLC's) is a very general setup which customer would like to deploy .

We have already opened a bug for the same (Little late though )

BUG ID :CSCtw44999

The WLC Config Guide should clarify our support for redundancy options for wired guest

Symptom:

Do not trunk a wired guest VLAN to multiple foreign controllers.  This is not supported, and will
generate unpredictable results.
Some of the other tthat changes we will be making as a part of doc correction would be

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/wireless/controller/7.0MR1/configuration/guide/cg_user_accts.html#wp1066125


1. The WiSM2 needs to be added as a supported controller.  (Not sure about the 7500, check with PM)

2. Where it says "Do not attempt to trunk a guest VLAN on the Catalyst 3750G ...", this should read:
"Do not trunk a wired guest VLAN to multiple foreign controllers.  This is not supported, and will
generate unpredictable results."

3. Add at least a line mentioning support for multiple anchors for a guest wired LAN.

Now  if you already have such deployments , ther criteria would be that nearest WLC on the broadcast domain (Layer 2) would  respond to the client associtation request .

Cisco Controller) >Tue Sep 11 13:27:42 2007: 00:0d:60:5e:ca:62 Adding mobile on Wired Guest 00:00:00:00:00:00(0)
Tue Sep 11 13:27:42 2007: 00:0d:60:5e:ca:62 apfHandleWiredGuestMobileStation (apf_wired_guest.c:121) Changing state for mobile 
00:0d:60:5e:ca:62 on AP 00:00:00: 00:00:00 from Idle to Associated .

I hope the above explanation could clarify your doubts to certain extent and also keep you
informed on Cisco's  roadmap on this feature .


Regards ,
Sharath K.P.
New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Sharath,

I am using the screenshot below for simplicity.  A small campus with two 5508-500s in it, one is the primary and one is the secondary.  The primary controller has all the APs on it, the secondary sits there with nothing, but configured the same, waiting for the primary to fail so it can take over.  Each controller configured for three corporate WLANs and one guest WLAN.

Both controllers are configured for guest wireless just like the drawing depicts, with an anchor controller in the DMZ.

Both controllers are configured for guest wired as well.  Does CSCtw44999 state that configuring both controllers for guest wired networking is not supported?

Thanks in advance,

Tim

New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

That's the way I've understood, if you have multiple local controllers, then only one of the them should be configured (or at least be active) for the Guest Wired network.

The way we have our environment configured, is that we have the vlan used for the Guest Wired vlan trunked to all our local controllers, but only one has this network as active on the device - In the event that the active controller failed, then we could simply enable the Guest Wired network on another local controller.

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi Daniel ,

Yes it very common pracitse to have redudant WLC's with exact similar config's present .

Now regarding  you query of having the guest vlan  trunked  to multiple local controllers ,without activating guest LAN . on secondary controllers  ,this should work fine .(checking the previouis issues and after lab tetsing ).

We have had issues when guest LAN was active at multiple WLC's ,where in sometimes clients dsassociate and sometimes have DHCP issues as well .

Let me know if you need further insight into the issue .

Pleasure discussin tech with you

Regards ,

Sharath K.P

New Member

Re: Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

That is the issue we are having. Each campus has two controllers with the same configs - with exception of the same dynamic ip addresses, of course. Guest wireless working fine, all other WLANs working fine. Primary controller handles all access points, secondary sits without any APs, waiting for primary to fail.

After we configured the wired guest solution on BOTH controllers (which are trunked to the same HSRP pair of core switches) we saw strange behavior on a few, but not all, of the wired guest users.

For instance, one campus has four wired guest users. Two of which appear to be working fine, however since they are guest kiosks, we don't really know for sure how well they work. The other two are in a library with constant use. The phones immediately started ringing because of these two machines.

The strange behavior we saw was mostly timeouts and deauths. The wired guest machine would work fine one day, and then the next it would require you to open a browser and login through the splash page over and over again. About every two or three minutes, or whenever you needed to go to the www. Almost as if the client was an 802.11 client and someone was sending you a deauth packet. Another thing we saw was time-outs to the gateway. I could set up a continuous ping to the gateway and it would randomly stop for about 90 seconds. Sometimes you would be required to log in again, sometimes not.

I thought at first it was the workstation image, so I booted to some Linux Live CDs and problem still existed. Replaced L1 items - patch cables, etc. Changed switchports, etc. Tried my laptop on the same ports, spoofing the MAC address of offending machines, still saw weird problems. We never did see DHCP issues, however. At least I didn't, anyway. During my troubleshooting, I had my laptop on the guest wireless sitting right next to the guest wired machines, and my laptop never had any issues like the guest wired machines.

Next step was I put two Linksys WUSB600N USB WLAN adapters on each machine, disabled the onboard gig card, and walked away. The machines have been fine ever since.

My next step is to find out the best way to disable the guest wired on the redundant controller, (but keep it configured) and develop a procedure for enabling it the day of a primary controller failure. But until then, the guest wired machines are going to stay wireless.

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi Tdennehy ,

Thanks for the detailed explanation ,Pleasure interacting with you

Is there a TAC case open on the issue mentioned above .

Currenlty are you in the testing phase ,I mean has the guest wired network been disabled on the WLC .If so please let me know the status . This should add to current work we  are doing in testing redundacny in wired guess networks .

Regarding 'procedure for enabling  guest wired network on the secondary WLC   the day of a primary controller failure' , I guess CSCtw44999   should answer all the question and documnet the various parameters that get broken  down .

Regards ,

Sharath K.P.


New Member

Re: Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

SR 620223969

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi ,

Apologise for the confusion .

While  its a very comman practise  to have multiple foriegn WLC's ,offlate we have seen seem multiple issue's  reported TAC on the same .Hence the caveat has been open to test all possible breakdown with Wired guest access with multiple foriegn . We working on the same and update  you as soon as possible

But again the design you have mentioned is very commanly deployed and serving guest clients fine .

Regards ,

Sharath K.P.

New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Sharath,

I created a network drawing showing you the way our deployment is configured.  This is really meant for everyone else reading this post, actually.

The way I understand it, the way we are configured below will not work because the guest wired solution is configured on both WLCs and of the edge switches are trunking all VLANs to the core, and the core is trunking the wired guest VLAN to both controllers.

We see strange behavior on the wired guest clients when configured like this.

New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi,

From my understanding during the course of these conversations, the scenario you have isn't recommended from a Guest Wired perspective. Going from the post from Sharath K.P. from the 18th Jan, Cisco have created Bug

CSCtw44999 for this issue.

In your scenario, the easiest solution is to leave all the switch and WLC trunking in place, but simply shutdown the Guest Wired network on your Secondary WLAN Controller, all requests will only be responsed to by the Primary Controller. In the event of a failure to this device, then you'd simply need to enable the Guest Wired network on the Secondary controller - having left all the trunking configuration in place - Guest wired connections would start to use this device.

Your example is similar to how we had out Guest Wired network configured initially, but we also had issues with client connections dropping etc. I simply disabled the Guest Wired network on 3 of our 4 controllers.

New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Daniel,

A picture is worth a thousand words in this case.  I too gather from the course of these conversations that our scenario is not supported/recommended when using the guest wired networking solution.

A lot of conversation has taken place here, and I am not sure how many people are following this thread.  I drew up the picture in hopes it would help everyone understand what scenario is not recommended.  From the docs it isn't quite clear what NOT to configure, and how.  The docs I have seen, anyway.  I skipped right over the 3750G part since I thought to myself, "we're not using that switch".

I sure hope the drawing is correct and that I got it right, and also hope it helps someone else!

-=Tim

New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

It certainly is. Knowing this information would have saved me quite a lot of head scratching many months ago when trying to troubleshoot a similar scenario.

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi Daneil ,

Thanks for  the inputs in the discussion .

You are absolutely right in the above post .The easiest way get the network running  would be to disable the wired guest WLAN on the secondary controller .

Regards ,

Sharath K.P.

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi Tdennehy ,

Thanks a lot for creating such a detailed diagram and explaining the depolyment scnearios .

You are absolutely right in you understanding that currently  we are not recommeding any redundancy  for wired guest access as we have been  notified of  inconsistencies when deploying the same .

We have opened CSCtw44999 for the same and will be working on that .

You can also subscribe to the bug ,by clicking on my notification and setting up a group for the same in our bug toolkit link .

http://tools.cisco.com/Support/BugToolKit/search/getBugDetails.do?method=fetchBugDetails&bugId=CSCtw44999

Regards ,

Sharath K.P.

New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hello sharath,

I have some problem with my configuration. I have two Vlan 10 and Vlan 20 with 4pc's. I want that student vlan connot ping Faculty Vlan, but Fuculty can ping Student Vlan.

Thank you

from:jess

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hi Jess ,

I dont see any reference to Wired guest access in the diagram . Is it a WLC based deployment or is it regular  L2/L3 switching network .

Please provide me more details , I will answer your query .

Regards ,

Sharath K.P

New Member

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Okey, just give me and idea in how to make that, PC1 cannot ping PC2 but, PC2 can ping PC1 how to configure this type of network.

I want Student PC cannot ping Faculty PC. but, Faculty can ping Student Pc

thank you...hope your reply.

Ask the Experts: Wired Guest Access

Hello Jess,

Thank you for your participation on this Ask the Expert Event.  Since the topic Sharath is covering is on Wireless Guest Access, he  can't answer your question on VLANs, I recommend you to post your  question at the LAN,   Switching and Routing to get a better opportunity to get your  question answered.

Kindest Regards,

Cisco Moderator

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