Why replace MSE 8510 MCU 4.4 with Telepresence Server (3.1)

[Douglas Baggett]

We have an MSE 8510 with MCU 4.4. Looking at software avaialble it looks like I could replace the software with Telepresence server software instead.

Why would I do this? What do I gain (and lose) by doing it? I don't have any old CTS systems, just Jabber, C series and MXP systems. Is the Telepresence Server software what is being actively developed while the old MCU sofware is not?

thanks

[Patrick Sparkman]

From my understanding, there is no cost related to an 8510 MCU to 8710 TPS migration.  All that is needed is a no cost option key on the MSE chassis to allow for the use of MCU port licenses on the TPS blade.  The migration itself is simply a software upgrade, and as far as TAC support, it remains the same.  If there is some other cost you're refering to, let me know.

I agree, the lack of auto attendant is a big thing.  If it wasn't for that and possibly some other small features that I haven't thought of, I'd consider to migrate over.  Mainly to take advantage of the active presence layouts, and recourse optimization with Conductor.

[Paulo Souza]

Hi Patrick,

Yes, that migration license is free. However, what about converting licenses from MCU to TP Server? Take a look at this table:

Page  12 - http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/telepresence/infrastructure/ts/install_guide/Running_TS_Software_on_MCU_MSE8510.pdf

Do you see? The license migration it not "1 = 1", so you will need to buy additional TS screen licenses in order to reach the same conference capacity that you had in your MCU. For example, 4 media port licenses in MCU will enable 1 FullHD port in MCU, to migrate this to TPS, you will need 5 media port license in MCU in order to enable 1 Full HD port in TPS.

Of course, if using Conductor, the license can optimized. But in general, it is not a "free" migration. You may have a cost involved.

Regards

Paulo Souza

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[Patrick Sparkman]

Correct, the license ratio is a 5 MCU to 1 TPS ratio.  If you don't already have enough MCU port license to meet the ratio of filling your TPS server, than yes a cost will need to be taken into account.  It depends on how many MCU ports you have, or any extra to spare to allocate to a TPS.

So you are correct, there could be a cost, just depends if you want to convert 1:1 MCU to TPS.  The migration of TPS software is free, and the existing MCU port licenses is as well, but the cost of extra port licensees still remains to meet the 5:1 ratio going from MCU to TPS.

Thanks Paulo, for pointing that out.  In my case, for reason I don't know, we have extra port licenses to fill a TPS blade, so I didn't that into account.

[Paulo Souza]

Hi Patrick,

In fact, pratically speaking, the calculation is  not exactly 5 to 1, when coverting, because the alocation schema is different for 8510 and 8710, so the calc is 1,25 to 1.

Because 1 TS screen licenses enables one Full HD port in TP Server, whereas 4 port licenses in MCU enable one Full HD port. So, when converting license from 8510 to 8710, 5 MCU port licenses matches 1 TS screen license, therefore, if you had one Full HD port in your MCU, now you will have one Full HD screen in TS as well, but as you used 5 MCU port licenses (and not 4 MCU port licenses) to get one Full HD TS, then we can say that the calculation is 1,25 to 1, in another words, when migrating, 1,25 Full HD ports in MCU matches 1 Full HD TS ports in TP Server.

However, anyway, there will be a cost involved, possibly.

In addition, when migrating, I suggest to have a number of MCU port licenses that is multiple of 5, otherwise, you are going to lose licenses, because the conversion ratio is 5 to 1. Then, for example, if you migrate 7 licenses from 8510 to 8710, you are going to lose 2 licenses (7-5), once you have to migrate multiple of 5, and not less than 5.

So, if you don't have a number of licenses in MCU that is multiple of 5, it is worth to buy the remaining licenses in order to reach the conversion ratio, before migrating, otherwise you are going to lose some licenses.

Regards

Paulo Souza

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[Douglas Baggett]

Wow..how confusing

So if we have one blade that can do 20 concurrent 720p30 sessions how would I convert that? 1.25x20?

Also, why in the world do they do that?

[Patrick Sparkman]

Take the number of your current MCU port licenses, for example mine is 40 right now allocated to my 8510, and divide it by 5.  Which will get me 8 screen licenses on a TPS.  To max out the screen licensees on a TPS you'll need 60 MCU port licenses.  If calculations are correct.

Paulo - I was told 5:1 by Cisco, but who knows the actual technical details.

I'm glad you brought up the mention of extra cost, most people are concerned with the features and/or functions going from an MCU to TPS, and not the other things that are required to make it run on the back end.

[Paulo Souza]

Patrick Sparkman wrote
Take the number of your current MCU port licenses, for example mine is 40 right now allocated to my 8510, and divide it by 5.  Which will get me 8 screen licenses on a TPS. 

Yes, that's right. But 8 screen licenses in TP Server enable 8 Full HD ports or 16 HD ports, therefore, if Douglas had 20 HD ports in MCU, after migrating, he will have only 16 HD screens in TP Server.

That is the point! You lose ports when converting, so you will have to buy more licenses. In this case, Douglas would need to buy more 2 TS screen license in TP Server in order to have 20 HD ports.

Paulo Souza

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[Douglas Baggett]

Thanks for the info! In the grand scheme of things, losing 2 would probably not worry people so much. We can only get 16 on the screen at one time anyway.

That being said, the auto attendant feature being missing is a show stopper. No upgrading for sure unless I get that back. I already sent an email to my CISCO science account rep. She said she would pass it up the chain.

[Paulo Souza]

We can only get 16 on the screen at one time anyway.

That's right. But be aware that TP Server supports up to 24 HD screens. This number was 16 in the past, but as of firmware 2.3, you can now have 24 HD ports without any hardware replacement.

Therefore, you can escalate your multipoint resources if necessary. That is a good point, because, with MCU 8510, the maximum number of HD ports is 20. Now you can go to 24 without need of additional hardware.

Paulo Souza

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[Douglas Baggett]

Very good info, but...to be honest having a multipoint with that many endpoints (especially if they are Jabber video users from home or wherever) is just plain messy and the audio problems with that many...in my experience is just asking for problems. 10-12 is really the sweet spot for most in a session from what I've seen.

Having the additional ports would be nice though to split among other conferences. It's not a big deal, we've recently purchased 2 more 8710 blades and another 48 ports so I doubt we'll have a problem. It's just that I have this oddball 8510 that I can't aggregate with the 8710's. I say odd just because it's different. I've been VERY happy with the 8510. I've had circumstances where becaus of the age of an incoming codec and the software rev, only the 8510 worked wich saved the day.

[Paulo Souza · Accepted solution]

I agree with you, Codian MCU is the best.   =)

That's why I think that Cisco is not going to add multiscreen support for MCU, because if MCU had multiscreen support, I am sure that all customers wouldn't want to migrate to TP Server or buy a new TP Server.

But because of these two key features of TP Server, everybody is thinking about using it, which are multiscreen support and support for resource optimzation with Conductor.

Great deal of Cisco! As always... This way, they can keep both products in the market, MCU and TPS.

Paulo Souza

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[Paulo Souza]

I'm glad you brought up the mention of extra cost, most people are concerned with the features and/or functions going from an MCU to TPS, and not the other things that are required to make it run on the back end.

This is a problem, normally the account managers from Cisco do not provide the technical details, so you will have to discover them by yourself. If you say that the convertion is simply 5 to 1, anybody could think, "well, that is bad, I am losing too much", however, as the port license alocation schema is different for 8710 and 8510, you will lose, but not so much. Pratically speaking, the calc is 1,25 to 1, and not purely 5 to 1.

That's why I have stated before, unless you have multiscreen endpoints or Cisco Telepresence Conductor, it is not so worth migrating from 8510 to 8710, even because you will lose many features provided by MCU.

Regards

Paulo Souza

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[Paulo Souza · Accepted solution]

Douglas Baggett wrote:
Wow..how confusing 

In fact, it is too simple! Just use this calc: Number of MCU ports / 1,25

If you have 20 HD ports in MCU, after migrating, you will have 16 HD screens in TP Server (20 / 1,25). If you have 10 Full HD ports in MCU, you will have 8 Full HD screen in TP Server (10 / 1,25).

MCU ports / 1,25 = TPS screens. That is all.

I hope this help.

Paulo Souza

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[Douglas Baggett]

Ooops. I had my math backwards. That's what I get for thinking about this stuff late in the work day! Thanks!

[Paulo Souza]

Is your doubt answered? Can you mark the "correct answer"? We use it to control which topics has been resolved.  =)

Paulo Souza

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