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it
New Member

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

Trying to choose between

867VAE-K9 and 887va for VDSL2+ and a 2nd WAN (cable) for redundancy backup.

Any thoughts?

Do they support HTTP proxy (upstream proxy)?

Would they balance 2 WANs or can do redundancy (one at a time - with auto fail-over) only?

What about the OS versions/upgrade releases for them?

Any QoS differences?

Maybe it is batter to go 2900 series with relevant interface cards?

Any help appreciated, thanks.

Everyone's tags (7)
13 REPLIES

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

Compare the products and choose whichever suits your requirement -

Cisco 867 -

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/routers/ps380/data_sheet_c78_461543.html

Cisco 887 -

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/routers/ps380/data_sheet_c78_459542_ps380_Products_Data_Sheet.html

Cisco 2900 -

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/routers/ps10537/data_sheet_c78_553896.html

QoS feaures e.g LLQ, CBWFQ, shaping, WRED etc. are supported on the WAN interface of 887 and 867. Other features load-balancing, failover etc. is supported by all of them.

-VIshesh

it
New Member

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

Thanks for that.

In

https://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/routers/access/800/860-880-890/hardware/installation/guide/HIG880-860.pdf

I ma reading:

"The Cisco 866VAE, 867VAE, 866VAE-K9, and 867VAE-K9 routers each have two WAN ports. Only one

of the two ports can be active at any given time."

So no load balancing?

Artur

Hall of Fame Super Gold

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

Would they balance 2 WANs or can do redundancy (one at a time - with auto fail-over) only?

Important question is what speed is your WAN? 

One of the biggest and significant "gotchas" for the 860, 880 and 890 are the amount of VLANs supported. 

860 supports up to two (2) VLANs.  880 supports up to eight (8) while the 890 supports up to forteen (14) VLANs. 

Bronze

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

it
New Member

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

The WAN would be up to 80down/20up for each WAN.

I am not particularly concerned about Vlans.

Artur

Hall of Fame Super Gold

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

The WAN would be up to 80down/20up for each WAN.

Then you should cast your gaze somewhere else.  The 800 series router will not be able to support 80 Mbps WAN bandwidth.

For 80 Mbps you need to be looking at a 2951 at a minimum.  If you plan to increase your bandwidth at a later date then you need to let us know so we can "size" up the right router for you.

it
New Member

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

Leo,

Cisco site states:

"New Cisco 887VA Routers support DSL multimode, including very-high-speed DSL 2 (VDSL2) and asymmetric DSL 2+ (ADSL2+). Part of the Cisco Integrated Services Routers Generation 2 (ISR G2) portfolio, they support VDSL2 and ADSL2+ on a single WAN interface."

& some retailers more precisely:

"The 887VA offers a combination VDSL2/ADSL2/2+ over PoTs on the WAN port for use with faster 40 Mbit and 80 Mbit broadband services."

Artur

Hall of Fame Super Gold

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

Hi Artur,

Please don't get offended with this response.

When you are reading Data Sheets from the Cisco website, always take them with a ton of salt.  The data sheets were written by MARKETING folks whose sole intention is to sell.  Every manufacturer will BLOAT the performance of their product.

The figures quoted in the data sheet are expressed in half duplex (one-way traffic) and without any encryption.  The "bible" a lot of us are using to "size up" which routers are suitable to the appropriate WAN speed is this:  Portable Product Sheets – Routing Performance.

Take note of the following items:

1.  Like the data sheets, this PDF file was updated by the MARKETING team;

2.  This PDF file is no longer being updated.  The team that was tasked to do so got "dissolved" back in 2011 during the annual "re-organization".

You say that your have an 80/20 Mbps DSL link.  Let's say, average of 50 Mbps.

Go through the data sheet and look for a router which can, more or less, push up to 200 Mbps (right-hand column) and you'll reach the 2951. 

Now be aware that, for example, in the next two years you plan to upgrade your WAN link to a full-blown 100 Mbps ethernet link and you are hoping that your trusty 2951 can support this.  The answer is no.  This is why you need to look at your current requirements and your future requirements.  If you plan to go up to 100 Mbps, again as an example, in the next two years then look for a router that can push between 350- to 400 Mbps.

So if you have a 100 Mbps link, why should you look for 400 Mbps?  Because you count 100 Mbps as one-way traffic.  200 Mbps means you have two one-way traffic of 100 Mbps (aka full duplex).  Next you can't encrypt one-way and do not encrypt the other way.  When you run encryption, you run encryption BOTH WAYS.  So you take 200 Mbps and double this.  Hence, you get 400 Mbps.

it
New Member

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

Hi Leo,

Thanks for that.

1. I somehow concluded that 867VAE-K9 is slower than 887va.  I am not 100% sure, because those (860 series) datasheets were created before 867VAE-K9, but then, the unit seems to belong to the 860 series after all.

2. When do you run encryption on WAN? Is it that some traffic (SSL) is automatically encrypted (https).

3. I am not too worried about the future unless the price hike to pay now for that future is not too big.

4. There is a number of folks on the Net that run 80/20 line with 887va & are happy with good speeds (non encrypted I guess).

5. There is also 890 series faster then 880 (twice?).

6. Would it be advisable to get something with two VDSL 2+ modules.  Someone said that they do not do those modules anymore.

7. When ISPs say 80/20, they probably mean non-encrypted, so you would not get 80/20 encrypted anyway - correct?

Overall, it seems to me that 880 series would do 80/20 non-encrypted & 890 would do encrypted.

I have a SonicWall NSA240 on which I can prioritise traffic both ways without any markings.

I could not do that on one Cisco (do not remember which). The support told me that it was not possible in general (after trying hard).  What happens is that on two PCs I ran Internet speed test simultaneously & the chosen one (by its IP) takes priority: 18meg line shows lets say 5 on one and 13 on the other. 

Each PC reads 18 when run on its own.

Can those discussed Cisco units do that? 

Regards,

Artur

Hall of Fame Super Gold

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

3. I am not too worried about the future unless the price hike to pay now for that future is not too big.

Depends on which part of the world you are in.  If you are located in the US, then what price hike?  Cisco seldom and rarely raise the price of their goods in the US, in my opinion.  The only time I've ever seen price hikes is when the local Cisco office blames "currency fluctuation" as a reason. 

4. There is a number of folks on the Net that run 80/20 line with 887va & are happy with good speeds (non encrypted I guess).

Sure.  Get them to test their links regularly with www.speedtest.net. 

5. There is also 890 series faster then 880 (twice?).

Refer to this PDF file here:  http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf

7. When ISPs say 80/20, they probably mean non-encrypted, so you would not get 80/20 encrypted anyway - correct?

Correct. 

Overall, it seems to me that 880 series would do 80/20 non-encrypted & 890 would do encrypted.

All Cisco routers will do encrypted and un-encrypted.  It's all how you enable and configure your encryption or not.

VIP Purple

We deploy a lot of Cisco 897

We deploy a lot of Cisco 897's.  With everything turned on (VPN, zone based firewall, HQOS and NAT) they top out around 160 to 170 Mb/s.  They also come standard with Advanced IP.  They usually out perform a 1941 as well.  We pretty much don't sell 1900 series routers any more as a result of this.

Cisco Employee

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

Artur,

There are two WAN ports in the 867VAE-K9 , one is layer 3 GE  and other is VDSL/ADSL over the pots.

You can use those as primary and back up and can alse be used as a load balancing over the two providers.

Since GE can be used for ethernet handoff connections like (cable) and other port can be used as ADSL/VDSL line over the POTS and it has an ATM connectivity.

for load balancing over you should have to use a route map and match the interface and access-list which needs to be permit and can PAT over it.

Best example is given in the following doc:-

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk648/tk361/technologies_configuration_example09186a0080950834.shtml

Since 887VA only supports VDSL/ADSL on a single termination so it will be hard to achcieve redundancy/load balancing.

Cisco 887VA

Multimode VDSL2/ADSL2/2+ over basic telephone service

4-port 10/100-Mbps managed switch

Yes (Cisco 887VAW)

Yes (Cisco 887VAG)

No

In the 887 You can create a SVI and make switch interface as routed ;however this is not a suggested method for ethernet termination.

-Ashish


it
New Member

867VAE-K9 vs 887va

So how come that

https://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/routers/access/800/860-880-890/hardware/installation/guide/HIG880-860.pdf

states the following (that would mean no load balancing):

"The Cisco 866VAE, 867VAE, 866VAE-K9, and 867VAE-K9 routers each have two WAN ports. Only one

of the two ports can be active at any given time."

Artur

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