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New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

I have a question that we don't seem to be able to resolve with BT... We experience random disconnects, in that the sync is present but the PPP session drops. Unplugging the DSL cables and re-inserting after the sync is lost always makes the router re-establish its PPP session. This can happen from once a week to a couple of times per day.

BT have suggested many things, but none are leading to a solution. We can rule out the obvious that BT always ask... master socket, different router (new 887VA of the same type). Power is clean, supplied from UPS.

I have the document Product_Bulletin_DSL.pdf, which is supposed to discuss correct operation with BT systems, but this morning ran in to BT stating that they don't support Cisco and wouldn't really go any further.

I did ask if they could access http://www.cisco-bt-portal.com/iusr/DSL/Product_Bulletin_DSL.pdf but we didn't seem to get very far.

As far as I can tell there is a BT specific version of firmware for this DSL connection, vdsl.bin-35d_d23j, it is referenced in the document but I don't seem to be able to access it from the link.

Also, I have what I belive o be the latest ios ready to apply, but CCP won't let me load it.. we get a message something to the effect of "wrong image for this router". As far as I can tell, it is correct... I obtained it from the Cisco downlaod area.

I am unsure of what DSL firmware in contained within, so maybe best to also load the vdsl.bin-35d_d23j (if I can get hold of it).

Any sugesstions on this problem?

Everyone's tags (1)
31 REPLIES
Silver

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi, If I recall correctly, that firmware is optimized to work with BT DSLAMs.

Perhaps you may ask BT directly for a copy of the firmware.

However, from what you wrote it seems that the DSL layer remains up, and only PPP flaps.

You should collect a "show dsl interface atm" to see what are your noise and attenuation levels, and if there are CRC and drops reported at ATM level.

It is possible that the ATM layer stays up, but with several CRC's, causing PPP layer to come down.

BTW, did you try to restart PPP without disconnecting the cable?

for example, shut/no shut the dialer, or configure the dialer with 'dialer persistent'

Regards

Marco

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi Marco, thanks for the reply.

I tried asking BT for this firmware, even giving them the reference to it on the cisco/bt portal site. They were not too helpful, and I am not too sure they understood the request.

BT tell me that "they don't support Cisco".... I think they are confused... we are not asking them for config support (e.g. ios commands)... it is ridiculous for them to say they don't 'support' industry standard hardware. They want us to use their 'hub'... great but no IPv6 support. I am happy to use and sell Cisco thanks BT!

The command show dsl interface atm doesn't work for me on this router...

but show controller vdsl 0 gives me the following...

Controller VDSL 0 is UP

Daemon Status:           Up

                        XTU-R (DS)              XTU-C (US)

Chip Vendor ID:         'BDCM'                   'TSTC'

Chip Vendor Specific:   0x0000                   0x0510

Chip Vendor Country:    0xB500                   0xB500

Modem Vendor ID:        'CSCO'                   'TSTC'

Modem Vendor Specific:  0x4602                   0x0510

Modem Vendor Country:   0xB500                   0xB500

Serial Number Near:    FCZ15269023 887VA-K9 15.1(2)T

Serial Number Far:     00000000000000000000000000000000

Modem Version Near:    15.1(2)T

Modem Version Far:     0x0510

Modem Status:            TC Sync (Showtime!)

DSL Config Mode:         AUTO

Trained Mode:            G.992.5 (ADSL2+) Annex A

TC Mode:                 ATM

Selftest Result:         0x00

DELT configuration:      disabled

DELT state:              not running

Trellis:                 ON                       ON

Line Attenuation:        40.5 dB                 23.3 dB

Signal Attenuation:      40.5 dB                  0.0 dB

Noise Margin:             9.3 dB                  5.8 dB

Attainable Rate:        8940 kbits/s             18815 kbits/s

Actual Power:            20.4 dBm                11.9 dBm

Total FECS:             0                        0

Total ES:               1071                     2959

Total SES:              32                       10

Total LOSS:             0                        0

Total UAS:              0                        0

Total LPRS:             0                        0

Total LOFS:             0                        0

Total LOLS:             0                        0

Bit swap:               18781                    4058

Full inits:             2

Failed full inits:      0

Short inits:            0

Failed short inits:     0

Firmware        Source          File Name (version)

--------        ------          -------------------

VDSL            embedded        VDSL_LINUX_DEV_01212008 (1)

Modem FW  Version:      100608_1515-4.02L.03.A2pv6C030h.d22k

Modem PHY Version:      A2pv6C030h.d22k

                  DS Channel1     DS Channel0   US Channel1       US Channel0

Speed (kbps):             0             8107             0               912

Previous Speed:           0             8219             0               896

Total Cells:              0       1030153251             0         115862778

User Cells:               0         12933173             0           2285416

Reed-Solomon EC:          0                0             0                 0

CRC Errors:               0             3116             0                 0

Header Errors:            0             6450             0              2273

Interleave (ms):       0.00             0.24          0.00              1.00

Actual INP:            0.00             0.00          0.00              0.00

Training Log :  Stopped

Training Log Filename : flash:vdsllog.bin

router#

I didn't do the shut/no shut on the dialer0.... next time it plays up, if I am here I will do that and see if that brings the link back up.

My dialer0 config is as below... should I be adding dialer persistent?

interface Dialer0

ip address negotiated

no ip redirects

ip mtu 1452

ip flow ingress

encapsulation ppp

dialer pool 1

dialer-group 1

ppp authentication chap pap callin

ppp chap hostname **********.btclick.com

ppp chap password 7 ************************

ppp pap sent-username**********.btclick.com password 7 ****************

no cdp enable

Silver

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi,

Noise margin and attenuation are acceptable but far from being good (just for reference, noise margin, the higher the better, under 8 dB the line will start to flap. Attenuation, the lower the better, 40 dB means you are pretty far from the DSLAM).

You can see that there are a few CRC and header errors. Try to monitor for a couple of days this output, to see if margin and attenuation are fluctuating during the day.

If PPP goes down again, check if there has been a significant increase in the error fields.

If that's the case, then the firmware upgrade can definitely help.

'Dialer persistent' is telling the dialer to try to be always up, no matter if there is interesting traffic.

If PPP goes somehow down, the dialer should try to restart immediately, starting a new PPP negotiation.

Hope this helps

Marco

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Okay, will monitor the error fields and see how we go.

I have also added the dialer persistent command... as it happens, I guess there is almost always traffic on this link so it should stay up (primary link with our VoIP traffic plus some backup name and mail servers hang off it). Might explain why it seems to go down more when we are all out of the office though.

Just for reference, I have also (previously) added the BT specific settings...

service internal

controller vdsl 0

operating mode auto

modem ukfeature

I am not 100% sure they are active/applicable if the BT firmware isn't loaded.

How do I go about getting the specific BT firmware? I can't get to the link in the Cisco/BT portal site document.... I think it is for BT employees only.

Thanks

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Not great progress so far, PPP session dropped again leaving sync.

At least I was able to poke around and try some debug.... but didn't get what I hoped.

I have a callback booked with BT today, but am not hopefull that I can get the DSL firmware out of them.

NOTE: In that which follows, it shows the VDSL controller is up... but there is no PPP session.

router#show controller vdsl 0

Controller VDSL 0 is UP

Daemon Status:           Up

                        XTU-R (DS)              XTU-C (US)

Chip Vendor ID:         'BDCM'                   'TSTC'

Chip Vendor Specific:   0x0000                   0x0510

Chip Vendor Country:    0xB500                   0xB500

Modem Vendor ID:        'CSCO'                   'TSTC'

Modem Vendor Specific:  0x4602                   0x0510

Modem Vendor Country:   0xB500                   0xB500

Serial Number Near:    FCZ15269023 887VA-K9 15.1(2)T

Serial Number Far:     00000000000000000000000000000000

Modem Version Near:    15.1(2)T

Modem Version Far:     0x0510

Modem Status:            TC Sync (Showtime!)

DSL Config Mode:         AUTO

Trained Mode:            G.992.5 (ADSL2+) Annex A

TC Mode:                 ATM

Selftest Result:         0x00

DELT configuration:      disabled

DELT state:              not running

Trellis:                 ON                       ON

Line Attenuation:        40.5 dB                 23.4 dB

Signal Attenuation:      40.5 dB                  0.0 dB

Noise Margin:             7.0 dB                  5.6 dB

Attainable Rate:        8076 kbits/s             18528 kbits/s

Actual Power:            20.6 dBm                12.0 dBm

Total FECS:             0                        0

Total ES:               3107                     7744

Total SES:              111                      29

Total LOSS:             0                        0

Total UAS:              0                        0

Total LPRS:             0                        0

Total LOFS:             0                        0

Total LOLS:             0                        0

Bit swap:               58673                    13103

Full inits:             4

Failed full inits:      0

Short inits:            0

Failed short inits:     0

Firmware        Source          File Name (version)

--------        ------          -------------------

VDSL            embedded        VDSL_LINUX_DEV_01212008 (1)

Modem FW  Version:      100608_1515-4.02L.03.A2pv6C030h.d22k

Modem PHY Version:      A2pv6C030h.d22k

                  DS Channel1     DS Channel0   US Channel1       US Channel0

Speed (kbps):             0             8143             0               896

Previous Speed:           0             8199             0               912

Total Cells:              0       3252959075             0         357873423

User Cells:               0         61027756             0           8876813

Reed-Solomon EC:          0                0             0                 0

CRC Errors:               0            10315             0                 0

Header Errors:            0            27179             0              8745

Interleave (ms):       0.00             0.24          0.00              1.00

Actual INP:            0.00             0.00          0.00              0.00

Training Log :  Stopped

Training Log Filename : flash:vdsllog.bin

router#

Let us try shutting dialer0...

router#conf t

router(config)#inter dialer0

router(config-if)#shut


Wait a while....


router(config-if)#no shut

router(config-if)#end

CD remains solid, PPP not restored.

Try atm0...

router#conf t

Enter configuration commands, one per line.  End with CNTL/Z.

router(config)#interface atm0

router(config-if)#shut

Wait a while....


router(config-if)#no shut

router(config-if)#end

CD remains solid, PPP not restored.

Cable out for 6 seconds... CD flashing

router#show controller vdsl 0

Controller VDSL 0 is DOWN

Daemon Status:           Establishing Link

                        XTU-R (DS)              XTU-C (US)

Chip Vendor ID:         'BDCM'                   'TSTC'

Chip Vendor Specific:   0x0000                   0x0510

Chip Vendor Country:    0xB500                   0xB500

Modem Vendor ID:        'CSCO'                   'TSTC'

Modem Vendor Specific:  0x4602                   0x0510

Modem Vendor Country:   0xB500                   0xB500

Serial Number Near:    FCZ15269023 887VA-K9 15.1(2)T

Serial Number Far:     00000000000000000000000000000000

Modem Version Near:    15.1(2)T

Modem Version Far:     0x0510

Modem Status:            TC Sync (Showtime!)

DSL Config Mode:         AUTO

Trained Mode:            G.992.5 (ADSL2+) Annex A

TC Mode:                 ATM

Selftest Result:         0x00

DELT configuration:      disabled

DELT state:              not running

Trellis:                 ON                       ON

Line Attenuation:        40.5 dB                 23.4 dB

Signal Attenuation:      40.5 dB                  0.0 dB

Noise Margin:             8.9 dB                  4.3 dB

Attainable Rate:        8164 kbits/s             18305 kbits/s

Actual Power:            20.5 dBm                12.1 dBm

Total FECS:             0                        0

Total ES:               1                        2

Total SES:              0                        0

Total LOSS:             0                        0

Total UAS:              0                        0

Total LPRS:             0                        0

Total LOFS:             0                        0

Total LOLS:             0                        0

Bit swap:               7                        0

Full inits:             5

Failed full inits:      0

Short inits:            0

Failed short inits:     0

Firmware        Source          File Name (version)

--------        ------          -------------------

VDSL            embedded        VDSL_LINUX_DEV_01212008 (1)

Modem FW  Version:      100608_1515-4.02L.03.A2pv6C030h.d22k

Modem PHY Version:      A2pv6C030h.d22k

                  DS Channel1     DS Channel0   US Channel1       US Channel0

Speed (kbps):             0             7471             0               888

Previous Speed:           0             8143             0               896

Total Cells:              0           813045             0             79591

User Cells:               0              500             0               505

Reed-Solomon EC:          0                0             0                 0

CRC Errors:               0                1             0                 0

Header Errors:            0                1             0                 2

Interleave (ms):       0.00             0.24          0.00              1.00

Actual INP:            0.00             0.00          0.00              0.00

Training Log :  Stopped

Training Log Filename : flash:vdsllog.bin

router#

Wait a while...

router#show controller vdsl 0

Controller VDSL 0 is UP

Daemon Status:           Up

                        XTU-R (DS)              XTU-C (US)

Chip Vendor ID:         'BDCM'                   'TSTC'

Chip Vendor Specific:   0x0000                   0x0510

Chip Vendor Country:    0xB500                   0xB500

Modem Vendor ID:        'CSCO'                   'TSTC'

Modem Vendor Specific:  0x4602                   0x0510

Modem Vendor Country:   0xB500                   0xB500

Serial Number Near:    FCZ15269023 887VA-K9 15.1(2)T

Serial Number Far:     00000000000000000000000000000000

Modem Version Near:    15.1(2)T

Modem Version Far:     0x0510

Modem Status:            TC Sync (Showtime!)

DSL Config Mode:         AUTO

Trained Mode:            G.992.5 (ADSL2+) Annex A

TC Mode:                 ATM

Selftest Result:         0x00

DELT configuration:      disabled

DELT state:              not running

Trellis:                 ON                       ON

Line Attenuation:        40.5 dB                 23.4 dB

Signal Attenuation:      40.5 dB                  0.0 dB

Noise Margin:             9.0 dB                  4.4 dB

Attainable Rate:        8208 kbits/s             18290 kbits/s

Actual Power:            20.5 dBm                12.1 dBm

Total FECS:             0                        0

Total ES:               2                        2

Total SES:              0                        0

Total LOSS:             0                        0

Total UAS:              0                        0

Total LPRS:             0                        0

Total LOFS:             0                        0

Total LOLS:             0                        0

Bit swap:               23                       0

Full inits:             5

Failed full inits:      0

Short inits:            0

Failed short inits:     0

Firmware        Source          File Name (version)

--------        ------          -------------------

VDSL            embedded        VDSL_LINUX_DEV_01212008 (1)

Modem FW  Version:      100608_1515-4.02L.03.A2pv6C030h.d22k

Modem PHY Version:      A2pv6C030h.d22k

                  DS Channel1     DS Channel0   US Channel1       US Channel0

Speed (kbps):             0             7471             0               888

Previous Speed:           0             8143             0               896

Total Cells:              0          1820840             0            205243

User Cells:               0              680             0               660

Reed-Solomon EC:          0                0             0                 0

CRC Errors:               0                2             0                 0

Header Errors:            0                4             0                 2

Interleave (ms):       0.00             0.24          0.00              1.00

Actual INP:            0.00             0.00          0.00              0.00

Training Log :  Stopped

Training Log Filename : flash:vdsllog.bin

router#

Hall of Fame Super Gold

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

You should have 'mtu 1492', not 'ip mtu xxx'.

Take and post debug PPP auth, debug PPP neg with 'term mon'.

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Not had any further failures with which to do more testing (actually, probably not noticed any failures... if it comes back up over night it will go unreported).

Spoke to BT again, who really don't get the issue. Waiting for another callback.

I need to obtain the vdsl.bin-35d_d23j firmware and/or confirm if this is contained in an IOS release (don't think it is).

I  can't access the file directly as it says we are not authorised for  that download. It seems a bit random as to what our Partner stauus lets  us access.

The link in the BT/Cisco document does't seem to go anywhere either. I get a not found on

http://www.cisco-bt-portal.com/iusr/DSL/vdsl.bin-35d_d23j

Hall of Fame Super Gold

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Since two years or so, you need a support contract specific to the software or file one needs to download.

Partner status doesn't apply anymore. The only people that can download without restrictions are Cisco employees.

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Thanks Paolo,

At least that explains why can't get to things that we used to... we can get to some software that isn't public... we still need to login, but it isn't a consistent set. Some Unified Comms, some switches, some APs and most of the router tools appear okay.

So, still need to source the firmware file vdsl.bin-35d_d23j

Does this count as warranty support? We opened another new 887VA last week to put in as a replacement, this had the same originally shipping versions of the firmware as our first one.

Mark

Hall of Fame Super Gold

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

The switches have free software updates for life, and that is why anybody can download it.

I believe that if you open a TAC case as "new device not working", an engineer can facilitate the firmware file to you.

Anyway chances are that customer will need the support contract anyway, for further updated, and hardware warranty.

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Resurrecting an old thread as we still don't have a resolution.

Update on this is that we put the 887VA on SmartNet maintenance and got the latest firmware,

vdsl.bin-35d_d23j. It is loaded correctly as confirmed by the router#show controller vdsl 0 command.

Firmware        Source          File Name (version)

--------        ------          -------------------

VDSL            user config     flash:vdsl.bin-A2pv6C035d_d23j (10)

Modem FW  Version:      110802_1752-4.02L.03.A2pv6C035d.d23j

Modem PHY Version:      A2pv6C035d.d23j

No change to the situation.

ios is as original... again when trying to do an upgrade with CCP it tells me the image (from the Cisco site) isn't compatible.

Feeding back to BT, they made changes in the exchange and effectively cut our connection for 8 days as they were unable to reverse the change (looks like an incorrect tie pair modification).

Having resolved that, we are now back in the situation with periodic disconnects.

Odd thing here is we have another site with identical 887VA kit (but not on a BT connection) that seems to work fine.

Since we now have this unit on SmartNet, I suppose we could open a TAC case... but I am not so sure this is Cisco's problem.

I am also considering abandoning BT's offerings and moving this router over to FTTC (VDSL). I know that the green box kit is all BT's but we appear to get better connections when we don't use BT Retail.

Any additional thoughts?

Mark

Hall of Fame Super Gold

Re: Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

CCP is not good at all, do the IOS update manually, and check agan.

If you can have another modem stable on the line, then it is Cisco problem.

New Member

Re: Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi Paolo,

Thanks for the quick reply... will do a manual upgrade of the IOS image.

Just to clarify, what I meant was we have an identical Cisco 887VA located at a customer site, that one is on a non-BT line and doesn't have any issues. So, it appears that the issue is the service provider's end rather than the Cisco router.

Mark

Hall of Fame Super Gold

Re: Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

I understand that, but a non-BT line can use a different DSLAM, now the point is that Cisco should work with any DSLAM, even if it requires different firmware. And the best way to prove that the circuit is stable, is using ISP-supplied modem.

New Member

Re: Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi Paolo,

Thanks again for the reply.

I will check today if our other connection is actually using BT equipment, or if it is LLU and therefore using different equipment.

The part I missed out of my post was that both of these connections are to the same local exchange in the same town, but you are quite right, I had missed to point that they could still be different DSLAM equipment in that same building.

Using the BT supplied equipment is difficult, it won't let us tunnel and get IPv6 connectivity which we need on this site. It is fine for a test, but our outages vary sometimes a few a day, sometimes none for a week.

Upgrading IOS this morning too.

Hall of Fame Super Gold

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

If the ISP modem is stable, you can set it in bridge mode, ask ISP to give either 'bridged IP' or PPPoE encapsulation, then configure everything you need on the cisco.

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Progress is that we have upgraded to IOS image to Version 15.2(4)M1 which should be the most recent.

Still using the A2pv6C035d_d23j firmware.

BT have now changed the noise margin from 3dB to 6dB.

Stable for the last 24 hours, but still monitoring. As mentioned before, sometime we have no drops for a week or more, then can be several a day at other times.

Hall of Fame Super Gold

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

On a high attenuation circuit like your, random drops are somehow inevitable. The point is that the router must be able to re-establish the circuit without manual intervention. Some people uses EEM scripts for that, but in my opinion these are kludges.

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Be interesting to hear if you have had any more issues with this.  We are currnetly undertaking a refresh of all our remote sites with BT. We are moving to a managed ADSL connect solution where BT supply and support all the equipment including the Cisco 887VA routers!! 

I wait with baited breath to see if we get the same issues!!!

Tim

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Still seeing occasional drops with this setup.

Interesting information from Tim above... BT supplying and supporting the 887VA... we continually get told (by BT) that they DON'T support Cisco! I think they seem to get confused with supporting as in "giving a working config", as opposed to supporting as in "DSLAM will function with".

BT caused us an 8 day outage on this connection a few months ago and were unable to fix it (at their exchange end) in a timely manner.

Will probably be migrating this ADSL connection to an FTTC connection in the near future. Will still be using the same 887VA and the same circuit... we will see how that goes.

Mark

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi Mark

could you post a working configuraiton for your router? I have the BT imange  vdsl.bin-35d_d23j and the latest IOS on my 886VA.

When I do a sh vdsl controller 0 I get the message

"VDSL is down" and then further down the list "Modem is idle"

The standard BT hub works

Just want to sanity check my BT settings with someone else.

Thanks

Rod

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi Rod,

Just sent you a PM with the config.

I am mostly happy that it is right, but I don't want to be posting up the config as a 'solution' yet as it may mislead others.

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Thanks Mark

Will look at it tomorrow.

Rod

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Good Morning All,

I have a similar issue here in Australia with this router and AAPT. Did this firmware fixed the issue?

New Member

Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi Stuart,

It did not work for me. I installed the correct BT ADSL firmware and IOS version 15.2. I also applied config from a working 887 router.

I've had to install and old type 800 until I get the time to investigate.

CD did not establish for me on the 886VA

Rod

New Member

Re: Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Thanks Rod,

We also applied this firmware to 20 routers in the last few days and one router today I upgraded to IOS 15.3. One thing to note about Bt and their phone line, is your router near the mdf or a new line? As BT known to use old lines and they can be noisy. I had a case when the building air/con was creating enough noise that cause Cisco 857 to disconnect. It only got fixed when they redo the cable between the mdf and the wall plug.

Sent from Cisco Technical Support iPhone App

New Member

Re: Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi Stuart

If it were noise on the line I would expect my old 877 not to CD - however I do take on board your point about noise as i've had issues with BT in the past regarding the same problems. The noise levels are quite low mind you ( 5db)...

New Member

Re: Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

Hi Rod,

Just as an update to this... my original problem was with the 887VA which is of course ADSL over POTS. I han't spotted yours was an 886VA which I believe is ADSL over ISDN. I didn't have any experience with that one and am unsure if the firmware I spoke about was correct for that configuration.

Maybe that is why there was no carrier detected.

I had a quick look at the original Cisco/BT document and didn't see discussions for the ISDN option. I hope I didn't mislead you.

New Member

Re: Cisco 887VA and BT ADSL

An update for everyone on this thread:

We didn't really manage to get the setup 100% stable. The new firmware and OS seeemd to help, but still had some times when it would drop off the network.

Paolo is, I think, on the right track. Clearly whatever the issue, the router should detect the condition and re-establish... and it is not doing so. So, in my mind there is at least a firmware issue, in that the router doesn't properly handle the disconnect issue. It is a seperate question as to why the drop occurs in the first place.

We managed to get BT to physically test the line at the premises and found that there were issues that remote testing did not pickup. (As it happens we knew the engineer they sent out, and he made extra efforts to make sure things were 100% even though it may previously have counted as acceptable). Corrosion was found in the street cabinet and a junction at the top of the pole. Both issues being corrected gave us a more stable connection (to be fair, this was the same time as firmare was changed, so I can't be 100% which item made the difference).

As it happens we have now moved this connection to FTTC. Same line, same 887VA and have this working too. No drops detected so far with this configuration. I do seem to have a possible issue with MTU.... but maybe that is for another thread.

Thanks for everyones thoughts and help on this one.

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