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1951
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45
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MLP and Queueing question

John Blakley
VIP Alumni
VIP Alumni

I have an MLP with 2 T1s and having an issue with voice clipping. The policy for voice doesn't show any drops. I know that interleaving is recommended for < 768k links, but what about 3Mb MLP interfaces? Everything that I'm reading about MLP and interleaving doesn't stipulate a speed requirement.

As a side note, I tried to remove fair queueing from the serial interface and it crashed the router. I found bug CSCsd09892:

no fair-queue causing VIP crash
Symtom:

On a router, a VIP crash may occur when "no fair-queue" is applied to
interfaces with service-policy.

Condition:

This is only seen when the "no fair-queue" command is applied to an interface
with service-policy.

Impact:
N/A

Workaround:
None

It seems to affect 15.0, which I have 15.0(1)M6 on these routers. The only fixed versions seem to affect 12.x and not 15, but the problem exists in 15. The way that I'm reading this it looks like I should be able to remove the service policy from the MLP interface and then make the "no fair-queue" change and reapply the policy. Does that sound like it would work?

Thanks,

John

.

HTH, John *** Please rate all useful posts ***
1 Accepted Solution

Accepted Solutions

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Posting

Unfortunately, what a provider spits out (for markings) doesn't indicate they are treating the marked traffic correctly.  To verify correct provider treatment, I've found this can be done by sending various combinations of various class traffic, to verify what comes out is as expected.  For example, if I send VoIP class traffic that's less or equal to the agreed subscription rate for that class, I should be able to overrun one or more other classes and still obtain expected performance for the VoIP traffic.  If I don't get these results, provider needs to do some explaining.  (Note - to do these kind of tests you need to know (control) end-to-end traffic rates, i.e. an active multipoint can be difficult to test.  Additionally, these kinds of stress confirmation tests can easily be disruptive to other production traffic.  Ideally, such testing only has known quantity of test traffic.)

PS:

I once spent 3 months arguing with a tier-1 MPLS international provider that one of our connections to their MPLS cloud didn't seem to be working 100% correctly.  They swore up, down and sideways, nothing wrong with their network.  Eventually, they found a line card with out-of-date firmware (for the card) was very occasionally corrupting packets when under high load.  They updated the firmware; end-to-end behavior finally became as I expected.

On multiple occasions, with them and other tier-1 WAN cloud providers (frame-relay, ATM, MPLS, MetroE), encountered minor provider configuration errors such that, again, end-to-end performance was less than I expected.  One time just one link of a bundle (forget whether it was MLPPP or ATM IMUX) was misconfigured.  Difficult for me to identify, but once I did, they quickly saw the issue, unlike the firmware issue above.  I.e. these type of errors normally required me finding the link that wasn't quite up to snuff, but when I did, the service provider would quickly "see" and correct the problem.

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27 Replies 27

Edison Ortiz
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

John,

I recommend configuring interleaving.

As for the bug, that's quite old and it's not a match for the 15.x train.

Can you post the crashinfo file?

Edison,

Thanks for the reply Under known affected versions, it shows 15.x being listed, but there's no reference to it being in the "fixed in" section:

http://tools.cisco.com/Support/BugToolKit/search/knownAffectedVersions.do?method=fetchKnownAffectedVersions&bugId=CSCsd09892

The router didn't generate a crashinfo. I had a local user reload the router with the switch.

The policy that I'm using right now shapes to 3Mb with a 20ms time interval. Do I need to change this to let the router set the time interval and then let interleaving do 20ms instead?

Thanks!

John

HTH, John *** Please rate all useful posts ***

Why do you need to shape if you are running line rate?

Shape is mostly used on sub-rated interfaces.

As for the bug, it's not listing 15.x as affected version in our internal tool.

I believe the external tool needs updating.

You are more than likely ran into another bug.

If you are willing to pursue, open a proactive TAC case and try to recreate.

I'll do that Edison...I'll get something submitted tomorrow.

Thanks!

HTH, John *** Please rate all useful posts ***

Joseph W. Doherty
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

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The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose. Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

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Posting

Rather than interleaving on a pair of full T1s, you might set tx-ring-limit to minimum.

I agree with Edison, not clear why you have a shaper.

The thought behind changing the time interval was because in Cisco Press QoS book it states that for real-time voice a time interval of 10ms is preferred. Then on Cisco's site I found another document that stated 20ms is preferred, so I decided to change it to 20ms to help with clipping. Personally, I couldn't hear a difference. The tx-ring is set to 1 on each serial interface now and it doesn't seem to help with the clipping.

HTH, John *** Please rate all useful posts ***

Disclaimer

The  Author of this posting offers the information contained within this  posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that  there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose.  Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not  be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this  posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In  no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including,  without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out  of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author  has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

When shaping and working with VoIP, I normally use 10 ms if the shaper defaults more than that.  Later IOS versions, I believe, often default to 4 ms.

Again, though, why are you shaping for 3 Mbps for a pair of T1s in a MLPPP config?

This is a LL to the other side or an interface to a cloud?

My policy looked like this:

policy-map VOIP

priority percent 15

policy-map OUTBOUND

class class-default

shape 3072000 61440

service-policy VOIP

I applied the OUTBOUND policy to the interface. How else can I tune down the time interval without shaping the traffic? When I made the change, it had shown the time interval as 20 instead of 125. This is to the provider in the MPLS cloud (our private side). I took all of the changes that I made off last night and tuned the tx-ring down to 1 to see if that would help. I don't see a time interval without shaping being applied either:

sh policy-map inter mu1 output class HIGH

Multilink1

  Service-policy output: VOIP

    queue stats for all priority classes:

      queue limit 64 packets

      (queue depth/total drops/no-buffer drops) 0/0/0

      (pkts output/bytes output) 224492/16729037

    Class-map: HIGH (match-all)

      224492 packets, 16729037 bytes

      5 minute offered rate 1000 bps, drop rate 0 bps

      Match: access-group name HIGH

      Priority: 33% (1013 kbps), burst bytes 25300, b/w exceed drops: 0

      QoS Set

        dscp ef

          Packets marked 224492

Thanks!

HTH, John *** Please rate all useful posts ***

Disclaimer

The   Author of this posting offers the information contained within this   posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that   there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose.   Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not   be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of  this  posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In   no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including,   without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising  out  of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if  Author  has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

Unless you need to control bandwidth below physical interface speed, no need to shape.  The hardware will push back when there's congestion; does this better than a shaper which is trying to emulate the same.

If you're "allowed" full dual T1 bundle to the cloud, then just use your VOIP policy map on the bundle.

That's what I have now with a little clipping. The only thing that I had seen different between the two locations that's experiencing the clipping was one site was already configured with a tx-ring of 1 and the other was a 3 for some reason. I reconfigured this to 1, but would that cause clipping? Otherwise, I don't see any drops in the policy which is why I was asking about interleaving if I should use it or not. I've never used it in a production environment, so I'm not sure if it would a.) help or b.) mess anything else up (out of order packets, etc).

HTH, John *** Please rate all useful posts ***

Disclaimer

The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose. Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

Tx-ring-limit can make a difference.  What that does is control the size of the hardware FIFO buffer.  What can happen, larger packets can get ahead of the VoIP packets waiting in your LLQ.

Edison's suggestion of interleaving should avoid such packets in the tx-ring being "too" large (NB: too many "small" fragments in the tx-ring can still be an issue) but it adds to MLPPP processing.  Should you use it?  You could try it and then you should be able to control timing with ppp multilink fragment-delay.  (You could try for 10 ms.)  (NB: tx-ring-limit and LFI could be used together to minimize the impact of larger non-voice packets.)

MLPPP will guarantee original packet sequence, again, only issue might be additional CPU processing and/or delay to reassembling the fragmented packets (and increased bandwidth utilization).

Thanks Joseph. I'm assuming that MLP LFI should be enabled at all sites that need to talk to each other in order to have any real benefit, correct?

HTH, John *** Please rate all useful posts ***

Disclaimer

The  Author of this posting offers the information contained within this  posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that  there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose.  Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not  be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this  posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In  no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including,  without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out  of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author  has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

I believe both sides of the MLPPP have to be configured to support it for it to be active.

Whether you need to do it at all your sites, depends on whether you find it both beneficial and actually necessary.

Joseph,

Thanks. I got a call back from the contact there and they're still having clipping, so lfi is my next step. I don't think there's anything else I can do. Could some of this go back to the phone system itself? It's Avaya...

Thanks,

John

HTH, John *** Please rate all useful posts ***
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